Should conscription be re-introduced in 21st Century Australia? (2 Viewers)

[SylviaB]

Traditional values and respect might be restored.

I'd have thought personal liberty was a pretty fucking important value.

 

[katie tully]

we're short on soldiers as it is. what makes you think ppl will sign up when there IS a war and the enemy is threatening to drop a nuclear bomb on Australia?

Psht. Make the most of the time we have left. Loot. etc. fuck going to war. we're all going to die anyway.

...that's the opinion i rkn a lot of ppl might have.

We're not short on soldiers...

What gives you that idea

 

[Cookie182]

Haha, its kind of relevant in a way.

How ironic that conservative fucktards object to voluntary things like "degrading" pornography, or "Murder Park," yet they will tolerate the government forcing people to go overseas to kill civilians and face a high chance of suffering a grizzly death.

Especially conservative christians.

Off topic, but I was watching the last Republican debate (with the likes of Mike Huckabee who openly denied evolution) and yea they so overtly support the war in Iraq/Afgahnistan (and any future "terroist" targets), the death penalty etc

Yet the death of a fetus is the greatest sin known to man as is private sexual relations between two non-married, consenting adults. Is conservatism just something my brain will never get?

Then they were asked whether Jesus would support the death penalty and concurrently picket abortion doctors...

*Time to avoid the question.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

No, we should be moving towards completely abolishing our military.

That's a rubbish idea while ever we're surrounded by so many hybrid regimes and failed states.

The reserves are already essentially 'conscriptable' due to a change Howard made to legislation in 2000, so I think the government should be aiming to increase the current capacity of the Army and Reserves... which it actually already is doing.

Conscription makes no sense unless there's a more tangible threat than just a greedy nationalistic China looming on the horizon.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

I believe national service should be introduced, with basic training which will help with issues such as dislapine (srry for spelling). For example a year or two compulsory miltary training, however can also serve when Australia is attacked or volunteer to serve in peace keeping missions. Traditional values and respect might be restored.

Other alternatives maybe making reserves compulsory for x amount of years or make the gap year compulsory.

It's pretty disturbing hearing some serfdom nostalgic say shit like this..
You actaully want to be the propertry (nay plaything) of the state, and you crave to be commanded what to do and think by it. I sincerly hope people who think like this never achieve positions of power. This idea that us 'proles' exist to protect the nation, and that 'traditional values' must be imposed on us is positively grotesque, and is pushed by fervent and uncultured moral bigots

nauseating.

 

[sam04u]

Fuck off, the government should have no right to force me to risk my life for a stupid country, fighting in a war I more than likely will disagree with.

Our grandparents fought so we wouldbn't have to, not so that we would be forced to.

raise soldier salaries, make the army more inviting, do whatever is necessary to get more people to join, but forcing people is fucking evil.

So long as a country is incapable of defending itself the citizens which inhabit the country are obligated to contribute to the countries defense. At present time that contribution is made through taxes which are used to fund the military.

The concept of those with military careers being the only active or trained military is utterly inefficient and ridiculous. It also would not even be enough to act as a proper defense.

yet they will tolerate the government forcing people to go overseas to kill civilians and face a high chance of suffering a grizzly death.

Yes, conscription should only apply to the following: defensive wars, minor peace keeping missions in neighbouring countries, and war games.

We're not short on soldiers...
What gives you that idea

I'm wondering where you got the idea that we were not short on soldiers.

We are ranked 102/161 for troops per citizen. For a country of our size, population, status and geopolitical position that's pretty bad. I'm mean we're outranked by the swedish, and the dutch. I mean come on!

No, we should be moving towards completely abolishing our military

That's nonsense. That would just make us an easy target.

 

[Freedom_]

If, Australia is attacked by “USSR,” the first task of the Australian govt and its intellectuals is to convince the people of Australia that the attack is really upon them, and not simply upon the ruling class. In this way, a war between rulers is converted into a war between peoples, with each people rushing to the defense of their rulers in the mistaken belief that the rulers are busily defending them.

Surely, for one example, there can be no more blatant case of involuntary servitude than the entire system of conscription. Every youth is forced to register with the selective service system when he turns eighteen. He is compelled to carry his draft card at all times, and, at whatever time the federal government deems fit, he is seized by the authorities and inducted into the armed forces. There his body and will are no longer his own; he is subject to the dictates of the government; and he can be forced to kill and to place his own life in jeopardy if the authorities so decree. What else is involuntary servitude if not the draft? Conscription is slavery.

 

[Ben1220]

I can't believe I am reading this... There are so... soo many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.

 

[JonathanM]

I am for conscription for a sort of "home defense" reason. Like, basic short training of most able bodied young Australians so we have some reserves to pull from in the event China lets loose their womens army on us. 250 million fucking chick soldiers. Be afraid.

 

[sam04u]

This idea that us 'proles' exist to protect the nation ... is positively grotesque, and is pushed by fervent and uncultured moral bigots

nauseating.

I'm not suggesting that the ruling class would march the 'proles' into battle on a leash into massacre after massacre in a bid to secure resources and curb communism in Asia as has been our recent history. Such acts are deplorable and would go against everything I believe in. But as to the idea of the people inhabiting a land, the people who eat it's fruits, drink it's water, breathe it's air. They are morally responsible to defend that nation from anything which would seek to interfere with their existence on that land.

 

[SylviaB]

So long as a country is incapable of defending itself the citizens which inhabit the country are obligated to contribute to the countries defense. At present time that contribution is made through taxes which are used to fund the military.

No they're not.

The concept of those with military careers being the only active or trained military is utterly inefficient and ridiculous. It also would not even be enough to act as a proper defense.

If it actually came to the stage where the shit has the the fan so bad as to render us unable to defend ourselves:

1. As if civillians are going to be able to do jack shit to help.
2. That's why we're allies with America (aka greatest army in the world) for.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

I'd sooner be penetrated in the bum by a long, throbbing, smooth and supple penis than go to war.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

my understanding is that they feel like sandbags

 

[SylviaB]

Like, basic short training of most able bodied young Australians...250 million fucking chick soldiers. Be afraid.

yeah basic training of a fraction of our popualtion will definitely be able to protect us from China.

 

[sam04u]

tl;dr

Yes, WWI should never be repeated. Along with the usage of scapegoats such as defensive treaties and poorly constructed casus bellis to justify the ruling classes bloodlust and desire for conquest and power.

 

[katie tully]

I'm wondering where you got the idea that we were not short on soldiers.

We are ranked 102/161 for troops per citizen. For a country of our size, population, status and geopolitical position that's pretty bad. I'm mean we're outranked by the swedish, and the dutch. I mean come on!

Why do we need a higher troop/citizen ratio? What immediate threats to our country can you foresee that requires us to boost our military?

 

[katie tully]

I am for conscription for a sort of "home defense" reason. Like, basic short training of most able bodied young Australians so we have some reserves to pull from in the event China lets loose their womens army on us. 250 million fucking chick soldiers. Be afraid.

I sense yr trolling.

What need does China have to invade us? They already own us.

 

[Jaylee42003]

We're not short on soldiers...

What gives you that idea

we have failed to meet the national recruitment target (set by rudd govt.) last year. that's what i heard on 2gb radio anyway...
guys, i dont hate freedom!! whaaaaat? hence the reason for going to war is so u can win and be free of any major threats to your country..im sure there are plenty of other reasons.
i guess i just dont have much faith in my peers in volunteering to go to war if the situation ever arose.
yeah i know that no one has declared war on australia at this point in time, but it is a possibility. a nuclear war is a very real possibility.

 

[sam04u]

Why should this apply to "defensive wars."

I don't believe you fully understand the concept of a defensive war.

defense: intended or appropriate for defending against or deterring aggression or attack

There is no such thing as a "good" act of aggression. If enough people feel as you do then the country should and would change directions. Basically it's the same with the concept of governments and representative executive figures. The many dictate to the few.

 

[Freedom_]

This act of conscripting is just as much a deed of unjustifiable aggression—of kidnapping and possibly murder—as the alleged aggression we are trying to guard ourselves against in the first place. If we add that the draftees owe their bodies and their lives, if necessary, to “society” or to “their country,” then we must retort: Who is this “society” or this “country” that is being used as a talisman to justify enslavement? It is simply all individua ls in the territorial area except the youths being conscripted. “Society” and “country” are in this case mythical abstractions that are being used to cloak the naked use of coercion to promote the interests of specific individuals.