Public School Teachers - Performance Pay (2 Viewers)

[mcflystargirl]

I think schools need more power to sack idiot teachers. Also I think there needs to be more testing when applying for a teaching job, like a trial period (say you have to teach this class about this syllabus point and you will be observed).

I remember we had a stupid teacher in year 11 it took her 9 months to get the sack

 

[Iruka]

I think schools need more power to sack idiot teachers. Also I think there needs to be more testing when applying for a teaching job, like a trial period (say you have to teach this class about this syllabus point and you will be observed).

I remember we had a stupid teacher in year 11 it took her 9 months to get the sack

Did she actually get sacked, or just moved to another school?

 

[Iruka]

The other thing is, DET is so laggardly in its recruitment practices that by the time they get around to offering jobs to fresh grads the good ones have already been snapped up by private schools.

So they certainly do need to reform their recruitment practices.

 

[katie tully]

Before that, they need to make it harder to get into teaching at uni. The girl I mentioned before got a UAI of > 50, but got in through early entry (be fucked if I know how that happened either).

 

[mcflystargirl]

Did she actually get sacked, or just moved to another school?

oh i forgot to mention i went to a catholic (not private) school...as far as i know she got sacked

 

[Iruka]

^^I think that if they did that, they simply wouldn't fill the places in the course. Education is not an area that has high student demand.

 

[katie tully]

^^I think that if they did that, they simply wouldn't fill the places in the course. Education is not an area that has high student demand.

Yes it is! It's regularly one of the most filled degrees, in terms of intake.

The problem is, because it's so easy to get into and because the pay is comparatively better than most grad jobs, completely imbeciles make it in. And once they're in, it's hard to get rid of them.

It takes a lot to be scratched from the DET register.

 

[B_B_J]

Dont think its going to be any good dropping the Dip ed.

 

[mcflystargirl]

Before that, they need to make it harder to get into teaching at uni. The girl I mentioned before got a UAI of > 50, but got in through early entry (be fucked if I know how that happened either).

my UAI was low in the HSC and i got into teaching (it was high enough to get in) However my marks in the area i want to teach were 80's

I know someone with 56 UAI and got into my course (the uai was 65) cos she got early entry she is an idiot and should not be in teh course nor deserves to be in the course

The UAI's are low for some cos of the high demand for teachers.

 

[katie tully]

Dont think its going to be any good dropping the Dip ed.

You can still do teaching post grad, but you have to do a 2 year Bachelor of Teaching or something instead.

 

[Iruka]

Yes it is! It's regularly one of the most filled degrees, in terms of intake.

The problem is, because it's so easy to get into and because the pay is comparatively better than most grad jobs, completely imbeciles make it in. And once they're in, it's hard to get rid of them.

It takes a lot to be scratched from the DET register.

Grad pay is certainly very good in teaching, but the problem is that you don't go anywhere in the long run. Salary maxes out after 7 years, I think. For example, I was looking at a job with NSW health as a trainee biostatistician, and the starting pay there is more than I will earn as a classroom teacher, ever. And this is just for a traineeship! (I mean, they pay you to go and do a full-fee masters degree on top of your wages.)

I think the reason why teaching is regularly filled is that they are taking all these borderline students (national priority funding area, and all that).

 

[katie tully]

I think it makes the degree look dumber too though. I remember when I did my HSC and I saw that teaching was 60, I said 'lol no way why would I work my arse off to get good marks, when all I need is a 60'

People getting the high marks don't want to feel like they're wasting their marks on teaching, when they can apply for law or something, purely to make themselves feel like the hard yards were worth it.

 

[B_B_J]

You can still do teaching post grad, but you have to do a 2 year Bachelor of Teaching or something instead.

hmm, well I had a really good maths teacher in high school who was a former mining engineer before he took up teaching. he told me that he hated being in the outback weeks at a time and after 3 years of doing such a shit job he took the 1 year Dip Ed which landed him teaching maths in a public school.

There are some really good teachers out there who have become teachers due to the dip Ed offered by some institutions, however there are also some really fuck tards as well.
2 years masters just for teaching.....hmm not sure about that.

 

[katie tully]

Grad pay is certainly very good in teaching, but the problem is that you don't go anywhere in the long run. Salary maxes out after 7 years, I think. For example, I was looking at a job with NSW health as a trainee biostatistician, and the starting pay there is more than I will earn as a classroom teacher, ever. And this is just for a traineeship! (I mean, they pay you to go and do a full-fee masters degree on top of your wages.)

I think the reason why teaching is regularly filled is that they are taking all these borderline students (national priority funding area, and all that).

NSW Health has similar thing though.

In nursing, I think after your 8th year you can't progress past that pay grade unless you go off and get more qualifications. Same with hospital scientists and most other professions in NSW Health.

Perhaps this problem in teaching can be fixed by getting teachers, if they want to progress past their pay grade, to go and get further tertiary qualifications?

 

[Iruka]

hmm, well I had a really good maths teacher in high school who was a former mining engineer before he took up teaching. he told me that he hated being in the outback weeks at a time and after 3 years of doing such a shit job he took the 1 year Dip Ed which landed him a teaching maths in a public school.

There are some really good teachers out there who have become teachers due to the dip Ed offered by some institutions, however there are also some really fuck tards as well.
2 years masters just for teaching.....hmm not sure about that.

And yet, they seem to be intent on phasing the dip ed out at most institutions.

 

[katie tully]

hmm, well I had a really good maths teacher in high school who was a former mining engineer before he took up teaching. he told me that he hated being in the outback weeks at a time and after 3 years of doing such a shit job he took the 1 year Dip Ed which landed him teaching maths in a public school.

There are some really good teachers out there who have become teachers due to the dip Ed offered by some institutions, however there are also some really fuck tards as well.
2 years masters just for teaching.....hmm not sure about that.

Well the one at CSU is offered in conjunction with a scholarship to encourage people in the industries to come across. It's not a Dip Ed but a Bachelor of Education.

At res last year we had a professional chef doing a bachelor of teaching, because the DET had offered to pay for the degree/costs + allowance, in order to recruit him as a hospitality teacher. So the incentive isn't completely lost, and these degrees can still be done by distance education.

 

[loquasagacious]

Because ultimately you're going to have good teachers in shit schools. I had an amazing English teacher, who taught at a cunted school. If we were to look at the marks of my HSC cohort and use it as a reflection of her teaching, it would be inaccurate.

IMO, even pay for all teachers, but as you said, fire the shit ones. If they cannot pass yearly literacy or numeracy tests, or demonstrate ongoing learning (such as submitting research) then they don't deserve to be a teacher.

Regression analysis of the data to control for the quality of the school/students. That way you isolate the impact that a teacher has and mitigate the problem of good tecaher in a bad school and bad teacher in a good school.

 

[katie tully]

I don't find out if I've passed or failed statistics until the 17th, so I am going to pretend that I fully comprehend regression analysis given that I didn't understand it for the exam (goes off to become a maths teacher)

 

[mcflystargirl]

just throwing this out there but i think the uni's should be monitoring teaching students marks too, if they are constantly failing, and not caring, maybe they should be questioning there motives or there place there to 'weed out' the people who are not committed to been good teachers.

 

[katie tully]

Well some unis have a set of 'key subjects' that you can only fail once, if you fail it twice you get kicked out of the degree.

Either she didn't fail any key subjects, or she only failed them once, but failed a heap. idk.