Summer clerkships 2009/2010 (5 Viewers)

[uniqueusername]

I've read threads that date back to 2006 and there are a few questions I still have (I'm looking for answers that I can't get from the HR team)

1. What is the general cut-off when it comes to marks? (Gilbert +Tobin HR were the only ones to actually give an answer - distinction to high credit average)

2. What is the weekly salary (before tax) at mid-tier & top tier-firms? (Clayton Utz HR said around $800)

3. Do firms look for legal work experience? (I keep hearing, 'no not necessarily' but what about cases where main income is pub work)

4. In your experience & from what you hear on the grapevine what does it take to get an interview/offer at one of the big 6 (I guess I'm mostly interested in AAR, Mallesons & Freehills)?

5. Does/can it benefit you if you know people working for the firm (eg. family friends are partners, uni friends have been past clerks, siblings are senior associates)?

At the moment I'm most concerned about what it actually takes to get an interview.


Answers or general advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Loko]

I clerked at one of the top 3 firms and had interviews with 7 firms all up (5 top tiers, 2 mid tiers) last year. Not sure about all your questions, but hopefully I can help.

1. Each firm will have a different cut-off, and some may be more flexible about this. It's pretty impossible to find out what the cut-offs are, and they would probably vary from year to year depending on the number of candidates. Either way, don't believe anyone who says you need an HD average - ridiculous. In my case, I had a D average (basically just sitting on a distinction) which was enough to get me plenty of interviews (well plenty for me, but lots of people I know had over 10 interviews first round which was ended up being way too much to handle!!).

2. I assume you mean weekly salary for the clerkship period, and not as a gradulate. I'm not sure about the mid-tiers, but last year Clutz said they were offering $870 pw before tax, Corrs offered around $900 and the firm I clerked at offered around $950. It was a while ago though, so not too sure about those numbers - they may have changed anyway.

3. Legal experience is definitely not a prerequisite. I had about 2.5 years worth of working as a paralegal at a few firms and I found that gave me something to talk about in interviews and helped me figure out what sort of law I want to practice. It also meant that I could prove that a) I was comfortable in a (sometimes v stressful) legal environment; and b) that I could do the job required. That's just me though - it helped me but others may totally disagree.

4. Firstly, you need good marks to get through to an interview at one of those firms. That is a given. There is often talk about people with very low averages but great extracurriculars getting. I think that's possible for a mid-tier, but there is heaps of competition for top-tier clerkships and the firms really need to differentiate between candidates on paper - marks is basically the only quantitative way they can do that. Other things obviously include a very well written cover letter catered to each firm individually (though I worked from a template which I just changed for each firm), work experience (not necessarily legal, but just to show you can work and study at the same time, have worked with other people etc) and some extracurriculars. Once you are through to the first round of interviews, though, it is mainly down to how you perform in the interview itself, which can be hard. I had trouble predicting if I would get through to a second round - there was one interview I thought I'd aced, but didn't get through and some I thought I did TERRIBLY in, but got through. Anyone's guess really!

5. I knew a few people who were 2nd year lawyers in a couple of the firms. I didn't drop their names into interviews, I think that would've been inappropriate. In saying that though, I could demonstrate that I had a fair idea of what working in a commercial firm would entail, from my paralegal work and from friends who were lawyers so maybe it was useful in that respect. Probably much more useful if you're family friends with a partner...if you want to go down that route.

That was a long long reply! Hope it helped. I think - and this is just my opinion - there'll probably be more competition this year for clerkships and government positions, with things the way they are. Good luck!

 

[stell_r]

1. As the above poster said, all the firms have different cut-offs. Distinction/high credit sounds about right for the big firms.

2. The four firms that made me offers (all big 6/ big mid tier) were offering salaries between $900 and $970 a week (incl super from memory). The smaller mid tiers pay less I think.

3. Legal work experience is obviously useful, but its not a requirement. Any work experience is good- it gives you things to talk about in an interview, and it tells the firm you're reliable etc. I hadn't worked in a law firm before, but I had spent summers working full time in an office environment. Really, it's all about how you spin it. I will say though- some of my friends who were paralegalling at firms while interviewing for clerkships often got asked things like "do you really want to work here"/"aren't you just going to stay with your current firm". On the other hand, some (but not all) firms basically consider their paralegals "pre-approved" for a clerkship provided they don't completely fall down in the interview process.

4. I had interviews with 5/6 big firms and a couple of the big mid tiers, and ended up with 4 offers. I had a distinction avg and decent work experience and extra curriculars (but by no means not spectacular). I've heard from partners at the firm I ended up at that from your application you get a 'score' for your grades and another for your extra-curriculars/work experience. Different unis are also treated differently in terms of marks.

Once you get to the interview stage, it's all about how you perform in the interviews. They're looking at how you present yourself, your communication skills and general 'fit' with the firm. And sometimes its just impossible to tell how you did- my first round at one of the big 6 felt terrible but they gave me a 2nd round, which i thought was ok, but then didn't get an offer.

5. It doesn't hurt to know people. Nobody likes a name dropper though- while having the managing partner as your godfather is probably going to work out pretty well, on the whole in and of itself it probably won't make much of a difference. Mostly the benefit lies in knowing more about the firm and that will reflect well in an interview. Personally I chose not to call in the family contacts and I'm glad- it felt better doing it by myself!

 

[melsc]

This thread may also be useful to talk about clerkships generally.

I am hoping to apply to anywhere I can, although I would prefer a clerkship at Baker and McKenzie (I liked the fact that they allow one entire rotation in pro bono and an international clerkship in 5th year) but I will be happy with what I can get.

 

[stell_r]

This thread may also be useful to talk about clerkships generally.

I am hoping to apply to anywhere I can, although I would prefer a clerkship at Baker and McKenzie (I liked the fact that they allow one entire rotation in pro bono and an international clerkship in 5th year) but I will be happy with what I can get.

Blakes also offers a pro bono rotation I think.

Bakers is definitely unparalleled with their international opportunities, but it's worth noting that not all the clerks get to do international clerkships- I believe it was 5 for this year, obviously could change.

 

[neo o]

Good luck this year guys!

Personally, I'm bored of the clerkship/graduate jobs rat race. I think I'm just going to follow in Hfis' footsteps and move to Brisbane, join a small firm and learn how to surf.

 

[uniqueusername]

I think I'll be applying to as many places as possible, providing I can muster up enough strength to write yet another 'I'm the person you're looking for' cover letter.

Does anyone have any advice before we all dive in?

 

[MichaelJackson2]

clerkships have opened, let the rat race begin!!!

 

[melsc]

I am waiting for my results this semester before I send mine in

 

[tofu]

I am waiting for my results this semester before I send mine in

At first, I was thinking the same thing, until it dawned on me that our Law faculty probably won't release our results until the end of July.

Does anyone know if it's necessary to wait or should I just leave a note on my academic transcript?

 

[subdued123]

you can just send whatever results you have now - come interview time, they'll request a copy of your transcript, so by then they can have your most results, including the semester just passed.

 

[tofu]

you can just send whatever results you have now - come interview time, they'll request a copy of your transcript, so by then they can have your most results, including the semester just passed.

Thanks for the advice. I have a feeling this will have been one of my poorer semesters results wise

 

[melsc]

At first, I was thinking the same thing, until it dawned on me that our Law faculty probably won't release our results until the end of July.

Does anyone know if it's necessary to wait or should I just leave a note on my academic transcript?

Its not a problem if they aren't out yet.

The only reason I am waiting is because I am hoping mine will help my GPA, and marks is the area I need to improve.

 

[uniqueusername]

I asked our faculty and was told that it's generally expected that students wait for their semester one results before applying.

If you really don't think your results will come out during July you should send an email to the HR guys at various firms to get an idea of what they expect applicants to do.

 

[Marmalade.]

A certain firm is asking for two written references to be attached to the application. Yeah, right.

 

[Omnidragon]

1. What is the general cut-off when it comes to marks? (Gilbert +Tobin HR were the only ones to actually give an answer - distinction to high credit average)

Top tier - probably a high credit +

2. What is the weekly salary (before tax) at mid-tier & top tier-firms? (Clayton Utz HR said around $800)

- Miserable. Wouldn't be doing it because of the money. You should enjoy law. Maybe $800 gross - can't remember the ridiculous figure.

3. Do firms look for legal work experience? (I keep hearing, 'no not necessarily' but what about cases where main income is pub work)

- No. It's about whether you look like a star candidate.

4. In your experience & from what you hear on the grapevine what does it take to get an interview/offer at one of the big 6 (I guess I'm mostly interested in AAR, Mallesons & Freehills)?

- Pretty good grades; some ok extra-curricular. Basically anyone who is a top-choice recruit at any industry.

5. Does/can it benefit you if you know people working for the firm (eg. family friends are partners, uni friends have been past clerks, siblings are senior associates)?

- Maybe if your parents were partners. Other than that, no. Could even disadvantage you if the interviewer hates the person you know.

At the moment I'm most concerned about what it actually takes to get an interview.


Answers or general advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[uniqueusername]

Which firm (in which city) is asking for written references?

 

[Frigid]

i wrote this for a friend a year ago, in preparation for her summer clerkship interviews:

• Most clerkship interviews centre around the experiences you've enumerated in your CV. Therefore, knowing the contents of your CV and cover letter well is a key preparatory step.

• When asked a question, always bring it back to qualities/skills you want to show the employer. Use detailed examples. Remember to structure your answer - describe the experience, mention any issues/challenges that arose, describe what you did to overcome these, show what the result was or what you learnt from the event.

• Treat each interview like it's your last. Demonstrate (controlled) enthusiasm and interest. Think about the (general) reasons that attract you to that firm. Be able to answer why those reasons/attributes are important to you.

• Remember that body language makes up two-thirds of all communication. Consider your posture and facial expression. Exude confidence by sitting up. Avoid too casual and too uptight postures. Don't adopt any defensive/aggressive gestures (eg crossed arms, clenched fists). Hands should be placed gently on the table, or used to make (small) gestures. Notice the body language of the interviewer in response to your answers. Elaborate on the points when their body language shows interest. It's a scientific fact that smiling is a universal sign of goodwill. Smile. It helps break up tension and overcomes your nerves. RELAX.

• Consider your oral expression. Use language appropriate in a work setting. Adopt a conversational tone. Remember, it's a dialogue, not a speech or an interrogation. Remember to PAUSE between sentences and ideas, to give time for the interview to reflect on your answers. Watch your speed... Don't blab. Don't waffle. Answer appropriately. If your answer becomes too long, finish off your answer at the next logical conclusion, then ask the interviewer if he/she wishes for you to elaborate or to provide another example.

• Actively listen: LISTEN TO THE QUESTION ASKED. Think before answering.

• Time and appearance. Give yourself plenty of time to get there, get relaxed before the interview. Dress professionally and neatly. Powersuits are good. Heels are good. Hair up is good. Sleep well the night before so you don't have eyebags. Don't go overboard with the makeup. Minimum jewelry is fine.

• An interview is like a date -- each party is trying to suss the other out, to use past and current behaviour as a prediction of future behaviour. Therefore, don't be shy to sell yourself - be persuasive and actively demonstrate why you are a suitable candidate for the job.

• Ask questions. Again, it's a date, a dialogue, not an interrogation. Ask thoughtful questions. If you've noticed that the interviewer has been with the firm for a while, ask him/her why they chose the firm, why they've stayed and whether the firm has met their expectations. Ask about what sort of things they get up to outside work and how they manage to balance these with their work. Ask them to elaborate on what's involved in the graduate program and what development opportunities are there for grads. Of course, don't go overboard with your questions. I think 3 or 4 thoughtful questions is fine.

 

[uniqueusername]

I've spent a few solid days applying and it's exhausting! The extra questions are killing me:

- What is your greatest achievement?
- Describe a project you have been involved in which you found particularly complex...
- Given the current economic and political landscape what are some of the issues you think our clients might be facing?
- Identify three qualities a good commercial lawyer should possess and provide an example of a time you demonstrated one or more of these qualities.

I'm finding it hard not to cringe when answering these.

 

[Marmalade.]

^ Is that Blake Dawson (or at least the 3rd one)?