Ownership of our bodies (2 Viewers)

[*TRUE*]

I think that everyone should be entitled to absolute ownership of their bodies, however I do believe that children are incapable of making a rational, informed opinion based on their own experience.

At what age does a child become fully aware of their actions and able to make justified deliberative decisions?

I myself am opposed to for example young children or even babies having their ears pierced. I don't think it is within a mother or fathers right to make that desicion on behalf of their child.

I'm also opposed to the whole concept of early confirmation, I mean at birth your Baptism is supposed to show your affinity and obligation to your faith but confirmation is supposed to be a moment where the child takes it upon themselves to show that they have rationally thought about it and fully give themself over to the faith without anyone to say yes on their behalf.

I think this is wrong to do to a child at such a young age. I recently attended my nephews Confirmation as I was their witness and I asked him what it meant now that he was baptised, to which he replied "I don't really know".

You can't expect children to make these desicions on their own behalf when they haven't the ability to rationalize the concept.

But then again, that puts into the question of whether families should be able to rear their children with their own faith at all... and them making decisions on their behalf is considered detrimental or wrong.

Should we just wait until children are able to make their own informative decisions before we force them into doing something that they might later disagree with?

I agree with much of this post.

 

[Cookie182]

I agree with much of this post.

Yep. Religious indoctrination of children = child abuse.

i would support making it ILLEGAL.

 

[Iron]

keep wrassling those angels in ur mind, cookie

 

[Tangent]

I think that everyone should be entitled to absolute ownership of their bodies, however I do believe that children are incapable of making a rational, informed opinion based on their own experience.

At what age does a child become fully aware of their actions and able to make justified deliberative decisions?

I myself am opposed to for example young children or even babies having their ears pierced. I don't think it is within a mother or fathers right to make that desicion on behalf of their child.

I'm also opposed to the whole concept of early confirmation, I mean at birth your Baptism is supposed to show your affinity and obligation to your faith but confirmation is supposed to be a moment where the child takes it upon themselves to show that they have rationally thought about it and fully give themself over to the faith without anyone to say yes on their behalf.

I think this is wrong to do to a child at such a young age. I recently attended my nephews Confirmation as I was their witness and I asked him what it meant now that he was confirmed, to which he replied "I don't really know".

You can't expect children to make these desicions on their own behalf when they haven't the ability to rationalize the concept.

But then again, that puts forward the question of whether families should be able to rear their children with their own faith at all... and if them making decisions on their behalf is considered detrimental or wrong.

Should we just wait until children are able to make their own informative decisions before we force them into doing something that they might later disagree with?

+1

I agree with much of this post too. Its about parenting, just bringing children up until they can stand on their own two feet. Though there are also parents who go too far and still try and control their child's life when they are capable (eg 20s). The parents shouldn't try to shove their beliefs down their child's throat, but provide them information enough so that the child can make an informed choice. Ultimately parenting is about teaching your child about the world, not making the decisions for them.

In regard to the sex-auctioning, i think its really stupid. You should have sex with a person you love, not the highest bidder. BUT i do believe that everyone owns their own body and are to do with it what they like. They can only do it once cant they? (selling their virginity). Maybe they will learn a valuable life lesson in the process.

 

[Empyrean444]

I'm also opposed to the whole concept of early confirmation, I mean at birth your Baptism is supposed to show your affinity and obligation to your faith but confirmation is supposed to be a moment where the child takes it upon themselves to show that they have rationally thought about it and fully give themself over to the faith without anyone to say yes on their behalf.

I think this is wrong to do to a child at such a young age. I recently attended my nephews Confirmation as I was their witness and I asked him what it meant now that he was confirmed, to which he replied "I don't really know".

I am against parents forcing their own religious beliefs upon their children (though there is nothing wrong with very gently 'exposing them' to them). For something like early confirmation or Baptism, though, I'm really not too fussed, as apostacy is always an option later in life.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

Look, you guys all need to realise that we partake in society and in doing so give up part of our liberty for the greater, democratic good. There is, and never has been, and should never be absolute ownership of our bodies.

Do grow up, comrades!

The ownership of this fist does not entitle me to do what I want with said fist.
Hence,
abortion is morally impermissible.

 

[spyro14]

Look, you guys all need to realise that we partake in society and in doing so give up part of our liberty for the greater, democratic good. There is, and never has been, and should never be absolute ownership of our bodies.

Do grow up, comrades!

The ownership of this fist does not entitle me to do what I want with said fist.
Hence,
abortion is morally impermissible.

Ohh please, you have the freedom to do whatever you want as long as you expect consequence. You can use said fist to punch me in the face granted you expect me to rip your face clean off. Unless you are religious what is the consequence of an abortion?

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

being sent to jail for first degree murder, in an ideal society.

i also think you misunderstand the concept of freedom. the ability to perform an act is not freedom if you cannot undertake the act without retaliation.

if you believe it is you have a skewed vision of freedom

 

[spyro14]

being sent to jail for first degree murder, in an ideal society.

i also think you misunderstand the concept of freedom. the ability to perform an act is not freedom if you cannot undertake the act without retaliation.

if you believe it is you have a skewed vision of freedom

Then it's a skewed vision I have.

 

[tiggaman]

What a loaded debate- people have the freedom to do whatever they want except where they voluntarily want to be a part of a civilised society, in which case we need to have restraint and tolerance... blah blah blah

 

[spyro14]

What a loaded debate- people have the freedom to do whatever they want except where they voluntarily want to be a part of a civilised society, in which case we need to have restraint and tolerance... blah blah blah

That was extremely insightful, now can you go be useless somewhere else?

 

[TommySix]

We own our bodies and yes, so do women and anything that relies on her body to survive.

 

[quik.]

I think that everyone should be entitled to absolute ownership of their bodies, however I do believe that children are incapable of making a rational, informed opinion based on their own experience.

At what age does a child become fully aware of their actions and able to make justified deliberative decisions?

I myself am opposed to for example young children or even babies having their ears pierced. I don't think it is within a mother or fathers right to make that desicion on behalf of their child.

I'm also opposed to the whole concept of early confirmation, I mean at birth your Baptism is supposed to show your affinity and obligation to your faith but confirmation is supposed to be a moment where the child takes it upon themselves to show that they have rationally thought about it and fully give themself over to the faith without anyone to say yes on their behalf.

I think this is wrong to do to a child at such a young age. I recently attended my nephews Confirmation as I was their witness and I asked him what it meant now that he was confirmed, to which he replied "I don't really know".

You can't expect children to make these desicions on their own behalf when they haven't the ability to rationalize the concept.

But then again, that puts forward the question of whether families should be able to rear their children with their own faith at all... and if them making decisions on their behalf is considered detrimental or wrong.

Should we just wait until children are able to make their own informative decisions before we force them into doing something that they might later disagree with?

Agree on the ear piercing thing.

As far as children making their own decisions, it is largely apparent when kids start developing their own ideas etc about certain things and I would place the responsibility on the parent to keep all this in mind when raising them and react accordingly, different kids mature at different rates etc. Of course this all assumes the parents are capable, which unfortunately seems to not be the case in a growing number of situations.

Regarding religion I don't mind children being raised according to their parents beliefs etc as long as the parents recognise that as they grow up they may challenge those beliefs and choose to go another way. I was raised Catholic, baptised and everything blabla, went to a Catholic school for half of primary and all of highschool. By highschool I was no longer 'religious', had developed my own ideas etc and my mum was perfectly fine with that.

 

[Freedom_]

haha I wonder what Iron's views are? haha only a single non relevant post.

 

[Iron]

The flesh is on loan from the father. We use it to do His bidding and nothing else.

True freedom is obtained in mind and spirit. It has little, if anything, to do with materialism.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

Does anyone else think we need an Optimus Prime emoticon?

Er, anyway... I don't see why the law grants ownership of one's person to oneself (ie slavery, kidnapping) but not ownership of one's body. Eg, I think it's really odd that you can sell parts of your car to someone but not parts of your body. So are we being told that we own our cars, but not our bodies? If so, who owns my body -- society? Then why doesn't society lock me up for treating my body like crap, yet wants to interfere if I were to sell it or destroy it? :S

Essentially, I really don't see where the distinction is made between my own 'private life' (which is traditionally left alone) and my body (which is somehow different).

The flesh is on loan from the father. We use it to do His bidding and nothing else.

True freedom is obtained in mind and spirit. It has little, if anything, to do with materialism.

Wait I need to find a good article about this, from some guy at Oxford. Was actually pretty interesting.

 

[BigBoyJames_]

The flesh is on loan from the father. We use it to do His bidding and nothing else.

What a fucking retarded comment.

 

[scaredytiger]

Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 30.
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

source: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

seems pretty straightforward. according to the UN, you may do what you like with your body unless it infringes upon the rights of others.

 

[Iron]

yeah but what exactly gives the UN the authority to say something like that? A military victory over Germany, Italy and Japan?

 

[BigBoyJames_]

And who the fuck gave you any right? or your make belief father or his son.....ffs snap the fuck out of it.