ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS .. thoughts and opinions? (2 Viewers)

[chicky_pie]

From having read this:
Indonesian officials board Oceanic Viking | World News | News.com.au

For them to be GRANTED visas and will be coming into our land within a few weeks and Kevin Rudd making this country and John Howard's old policy (which was better than KRudds) a mockery, and to make us look like fools towards the rest of the world.

So tell me, are you against or for illegal (economic migrants) immigrants coming into our land jumping queue ahead of those trying to come to this country LEGALLY? What about REAL refugees? who are currently waiting in camps, who don't have cash at all, who barely could afford a decent meal for their child, what about those who want to become an Australian citizenship have to wait YEARS to LEGALLY go through the process of being granted at least?

...Dear Kevin Rudd & Co plus his so called $900 supporters, I fucking hate you.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

dont care how many people come to this country because it wont effect me a single bit. Im not going to hoohaa over them not coming and neither am going to go hoohaa if they do come.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

.

 

[loquasagacious]

As an introduction I thought I'd paraphrase Nolan: I would be more comfortable living in a country with boat people than I am living in one populated by xenophobic bogans who would send them home.

My thoughts on the issue:

Depending on political persuassion the nomenclature usually used to refer to these individuals is asylum seeker (neutral), refugee (in favour), illegal immigrant (opposed), economic refugee (opposed), boat people (neutral-opposed). While all of these terms are in a sense accurate I also think they are basically irrelevant because they all rely on the concept of state soveriegnty and the right of states to "decide who comes here and the manner in which they come", a position which I explicitly reject.

With the exception of criminal activity I believe in the free movement of labour. I recall reading somewhere that the whole concept of visas only orginated in the early 20th Century?

I support the free movement of labour because it relates to the freedom of individuals to live their lives in the manner which they see fit and it is key to the effecient operation of the free market.

Immigration is good for a country because it grows both the economy and society. It creates a bigger consumer market and makes more labour available. More people means that the critical mass required for the arts, health and education can be achieved. Different people mean different ways of thinking, new ways to do things and new perspectives, this fosters social progress and development. Immigration strengthens our economy and strengthens our society.

And it's worth noting that the Government knows that. We have a relatively large number of immigrants moving to Australia, indeed asylum seekers are a drop in the bucket compared to the total.

So people may arrive in Australia as skilled migrants, refugees from persecution or as people just looking for a better life and I don't see a difference. I think we should welcome them all.

Having read the last paragraph some will no doubt suggest that if we opened our borders we would be flooded with migrants, a position on which I make the following comments:

• It is essentially racist as it is just a barely disguised fear is that we will be flooded by asians/Indians
• Our policy on migrants does not play a great role in them deciding to come here, the current influx is a result of the situation in Sri Lanka - not any percieved 'softening' of policy by the ALP
• If we did 'open the flood gates' I would expect an initial spike in numbers but this would be because of people on the waiting list not any spike in 'boat people'
• Following the spike I would expect our immigration levels to reach a state of equilibrium which was around the current immigrant numbers because that is how many join the wait list annually
• An open border policy would reduce boat people numbers because if you could pay $40k for a risky boat ride or $4k for a flight which would you do?
• We have effectively an open boarder with NZ however they haven't all moved here

Conclusion:
The above is too fragmented and stream of consciousness but it's been a long day. My position in a nutshell is: open borders are good for Australia and that's what we should move to.

 

[will-anal]

Who cares eh
If they're willing to work and contribute to society, they're already 100x better than most lower class white Australians living off welfare.

 

[loquasagacious]

Who cares eh
If they're willing to work and contribute to society, they're already 100x better than most lower class white Australians living off welfare.

This.

 

[chicky_pie]

Who cares eh
If they're willing to work and contribute to society, they're already 100x better than most lower class white Australians living off welfare.

I read a statistic that these so called refugees more than 80% are currently on centrelink, so along with white trash society, bringing more trashy lazy dole bludger people will just drain the tax payers money.

 

[dieburndie]

"Illegal immigrant" is in fact often entirely incorrect as it is used to describe those attempting to enter Australia by boat. It is not against the law for displaced persons to seek asylum in Australia.

On this issue as a whole, the last thing on anyone's mind seems to be placing it in the context of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.

Following the apparent defeat of the Tamil insurgency earlier this year, 300,000 Tamil civilians were left internally displaced. Despite commitments made by the Sri Lankan government to resettle the IDPs as a matter of highest priority, the majority are still confined to camps where they are held against their will. The fact that these dire circumstances are so readily ignored in condemning the actions of asylum seekers is absolutely deplorable.

 

[will-anal]

I read a statistic that these so called refugees more than 80% are currently on centrelink, so along with white trash society, bringing more trashy lazy dole bludger people will just drain the tax payers money.

I doubt they're long term welfare recipients unlike the average western suburbs resident.

 

[chicky_pie]

As an introduction I thought I'd paraphrase Nolan: I would be more comfortable living in a country with boat people than I am living in one populated by xenophobic bogans who would send them home.

My thoughts on the issue:

Depending on political persuassion the nomenclature usually used to refer to these individuals is asylum seeker (neutral), refugee (in favour), illegal immigrant (opposed), economic refugee (opposed), boat people (neutral-opposed). While all of these terms are in a sense accurate I also think they are basically irrelevant because they all rely on the concept of state soveriegnty and the right of states to "decide who comes here and the manner in which they come", a position which I explicitly reject.

With the exception of criminal activity I believe in the free movement of labour. I recall reading somewhere that the whole concept of visas only orginated in the early 20th Century?

I support the free movement of labour because it relates to the freedom of individuals to live their lives in the manner which they see fit and it is key to the effecient operation of the free market.

Immigration is good for a country because it grows both the economy and society. It creates a bigger consumer market and makes more labour available. More people means that the critical mass required for the arts, health and education can be achieved. Different people mean different ways of thinking, new ways to do things and new perspectives, this fosters social progress and development. Immigration strengthens our economy and strengthens our society.

And it's worth noting that the Government knows that. We have a relatively large number of immigrants moving to Australia, indeed asylum seekers are a drop in the bucket compared to the total.

So people may arrive in Australia as skilled migrants, refugees from persecution or as people just looking for a better life and I don't see a difference. I think we should welcome them all.

Having read the last paragraph some will no doubt suggest that if we opened our borders we would be flooded with migrants, a position on which I make the following comments:

• It is essentially racist as it is just a barely disguised fear is that we will be flooded by asians/Indians
• Our policy on migrants does not play a great role in them deciding to come here, the current influx is a result of the situation in Sri Lanka - not any percieved 'softening' of policy by the ALP
• If we did 'open the flood gates' I would expect an initial spike in numbers but this would be because of people on the waiting list not any spike in 'boat people'
• Following the spike I would expect our immigration levels to reach a state of equilibrium which was around the current immigrant numbers because that is how many join the wait list annually
• An open border policy would reduce boat people numbers because if you could pay $40k for a risky boat ride or $4k for a flight which would you do?
• We have effectively an open boarder with NZ however they haven't all moved here

Conclusion:
The above is too fragmented and stream of consciousness but it's been a long day. My position in a nutshell is: open borders are good for Australia and that's what we should move to.

Welcome them all? I bet you're the type of person when someone pushes in front of you in a line at a local bank waiting for a teller, you'd be screaming your head off but so welcoming for those breaking the law trying to enter to this country. Sorry, a lot of my friends (who are also born overseas or parents who migrated to Australia LEGALLY) are also against illegal immigrants entering this country.

What about the poor women and children in countries around Africa waiting in refugee camps for countries such as Australia to accept them? Don't you think they should have a better opportunity of getting a visa and employment opportunity than these illegal scumbags (and people smugglers)?

 

[chicky_pie]

dont care how many people come to this country because it wont effect me a single bit. Im not going to hoohaa over them not coming and neither am going to go hoohaa if they do come.

The day one of these illegal immigrants along with fake identification documents where back at home did criminal activities rape a relative in your family.. would you take a stance?

 

[chicky_pie]

I doubt they're long term welfare recipients unlike the average western suburbs resident.

Most of them reside in the Western Suburbs, so your argument is irreverent.

 

[chicky_pie]

"Illegal immigrant" is in fact often entirely incorrect as it is used to describe those attempting to enter Australia by boat. It is not against the law for displaced persons to seek asylum in Australia.

On this issue as a whole, the last thing on anyone's mind seems to be placing it in the context of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.

Following the apparent defeat of the Tamil insurgency earlier this year, 300,000 Tamil civilians were left internally displaced. Despite commitments made by the Sri Lankan government to resettle the IDPs as a matter of highest priority, the majority are still confined to camps where they are held against their will. The fact that these dire circumstances are so readily ignored in condemning the actions of asylum seekers is absolutely deplorable.

Sigh, do you really believe that? Do you believe their story? if they're running from such horror, they can run to neighbouring India if they're really so called in danger of getting executed. Most refugees would run to the neighbouring country, but sorry these are not genuine refugees, they're economic illegal migrants trying to come to this country since we have a generous welfare system. The fact they can pay more than $10,000 for a boat trip where they can use the money to come to this country legally and be like everybody else who are trying so hard to even get a temporary visa to Australia and have to wait years, to me it's just a slap to the faces of those who migrated or at least currently waiting to come to this country legally.

 

[will-anal]

Most of them reside in the Western Suburbs, so your argument is irreverent.

I don't see how.

Giving them welfare when they first arrive in order to set them up so that they can at least eat isn't a great strain on our economy. You can't honestly then tell me that the majority are content with living off welfare and have no desire to build a career.

Prove this to me.

 

[will-anal]

Sigh, do you really believe that? Do you believe their story? if they're running from such horror, they can run to neighbouring India if they're really so called in danger of getting executed. Most refugees would run to the neighbouring country, but sorry these are not genuine refugees, they're economic illegal migrants trying to come to this country since we have a generous welfare system. The fact they can pay more than $10,000 for a boat trip where they can use the money to come to this country legally and be like everybody else who are trying so hard to even get a temporary visa to Australia and have to wait years, to me it's just a slap to the faces of those who migrated or at least currently waiting to come to this country legally.

If Australia got invaded tomorrow and you were being hunted, ethnically cleansed, etc and your children faced a bleak future filled with war and terror and the neighbouring countries were in a similar state and the only safe place was Greenland which will cost 10k, you're telling me you wouldn't raise the funds somehow and risk the trip to the closest safe nation?

 

[badquinton304]

The funniest thing is that chickypie is not a troll.
Also multiple choice boxes for the poll, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

[Phoenix Fury]

Illegal immigrants should be fucked off until they apply legally. Legal ones should be granted Visas provided they fit whatever criteria/standards are required.

 

[Jeee]

The first fleet were the first boat people.

 

[will-anal]

The first fleet were the first boat people.

You can't draw parallels between people forced to come here as a result of the British penal system 200+ years ago and... jesus you're dumb

 

[mirakon]

Hell, give these hard-done-by people are chance dammit. When you've been to hell and back and experienced the horrors of living in one of the least secure countries out there, I bet you that you'd be swimming if you had to, to Australia or some other western country.

We have tons of land, a small elderly population. Demographically, letting such immigrants in could also increase the workforce, thus making it easier to cope with the older population coming into Australia.

So yeah, let them in.