School League Tables (3 Viewers)

[banco55]

perverse maybe, but jobs are at stake. i'm actually all for transparency in our schools to be honest, but there has to be guarantees for the poorer performing schools; whether if this comes in extra funding or extra teachers.

i thought the teachers' union were now ok with the idea of performance based pay?
Teachers give ground on performance pay

If you read the fine print they are not really for performance pay. They are for "performance pay" as long as it doesn't have any of the characteristics of "performance pay". Their proposal is that teachers who rack up points for further professional development and more time in the job should be paid extra as "performance pay".

Why talk about guarantees in terms of schools? Shouldn't it be guarantees for the students?

 

[johony]

Why talk about guarantees in terms of schools? Shouldn't it be guarantees for the students?

well this guarantee (presumably) would flow on to the students so that's why i just said schools.

 

[aussie-boy]

The problem is that many schools are "bad" for reasons beyond their control; for example it has been proven that children of working class people, whether intelligent or not do worse at school than more affluent children simply because they aren't as likely to be encouraged to read as much, or to take school seriously. The reason this is a problem is because it has been shown that simply by having higher achievers in a class tends to encourage other students to improve themselves too.

If all the good students in an area suddenly start going to Ashfield and all the dumb students to Canterbury, for example, its obvious who is going to do better in the rankings, regardless of how good the teachers are.

Do you think if all the teachers from James Ruse swapped with say, Punchbowl Boys, that Punchbowl boys would be the number 1 ranked school? Of course not, though James ruse would still be at the top simply because it has the best canditure.

It annoys me that while you have such a good point that effectively should end the argument, people are still continuing with their little rants using illogical theory.

1 problem however... good students improve at a slower rate than poor students, especially when following a curriculum that leads up to exams which are not particularly difficult. So schools with dumb students would score higher than schools with intelligent students.

 

[johony]

shitfights are essential in ncap

 

[Riet]

It annoys me that while you have such a good point that effectively should end the argument, people are still continuing with their little rants using illogical theory.

1 problem however... good students improve at a slower rate than poor students, especially when following a curriculum that leads up to exams which are not particularly difficult. So schools with dumb students would score higher than schools with intelligent students.

This can easily be accounted for though. If your students "only" manage to maintain a certain standard (i.e. they don't improve but that are still really good) you aren't penalised.

 

[Hypermelon]

they are launching the website My School on thursday...

not what i was hoping for

 

[MonkEE]

Julia Gillard's justification.

ISSUES: My School website; Education Revolution.

 

[BlackDragon]

If we start ranking our schools the emphasis is going to change from education to performance, which could be the worst possible outcome. More funding cannot change the issues that many schools have, which is the behaviour and attitude of their students. Things like this are determined by socio-economic position of the school more than anything else. We should at all costs move away from assessing our children on performance in this manner, it is a too simplistic way to understand what is going on in our schools and will lead to bad places. The american "No child gets left behind" strategy is an important example of this.

 

[banco55]

Don't you think people know that a school in say punchbowl is likely to have more students from a disadvantaged background etc. than a school in the northern suburbs?

Parents and taxpayers shouldn't be treated as idiots who need to be protected from unpalatable truths. As for the teacher's union they are totally disingenuous about the whole thing. Their main problem with it is they are opposed to any form of accountability for teachers.

 

[MonkEE]

parents and taxpayers shouldn't be treated as idiots who need to be protected from unpalatable truths. As for the teacher's union they are totally disingenuous about the whole thing. Their main problem with it is they are opposed to any form of accountability for teachers.

+1

 

[beefnoodle]

The best thing to do is to privatise the system and run them like businesses that compete.

 

[Failure_123]

Probably the most critial action taken by the government in terms of education. As some of you may have said, it gives an incentive for lower performing schools to increase their awareness about their issues.

I would like to see additional information posted on the website inculding the list of teachers and students names as well as general comments ahaha. Name and shame those teachers and staff who are barely qualified.

 

[banco55]

Funny thing is it's exposed some private schools that charge a hell of a lot for mediocre results.

 

[Will Shakespear]

Hang on, why are we equating school league tables with accountability for teachers?

Schools aren't homogenous units you know.

 

[Sultun]

I propose that a ranking of teachers in created and the bottom 10% are paraded around some racecourse like shamed cattle.

 

[banco55]

Hang on, why are we equating school league tables with accountability for teachers?

Schools aren't homogenous units you know.

Either are businesses but if you are a principal and your results aren't stellar don't you think you'd have an added incentive with these league tables to try to get rid of the teachers who you know aren't any good and that you'd have an incentive to keep those teachers who are top performers?

 

[bouncingfire]

LOL the average attendance at the school i go to is 84%

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

do the bottom 3 schools get relegated?


nah, seriously, such a system would be too detrimental to poorer performing schools. perhaps it would give them an incentive, however there is the prospect of better students going to other schools.
edit: perhaps the lower x% of schools receive more funding? then theres the problem of tanking..

Teachers are total hypocrites. They don't want people to leave poor performing schools, but they wouldn't have their children attend one of these poor schools to help prop it up. Teachers use their own knowledge of the system to make sure they send their children to the best schools, but they want other parents to be restricted from having this information.

 

[Lentern]

Teachers are total hypocrites. They don't want people to leave poor performing schools, but they wouldn't have their children attend one of these poor schools to help prop it up. Teachers use their own knowledge of the system to make sure they send their children to the best schools, but they want other parents to be restricted from having this information.

What a ridiculous, sweeping and downright stupid thing to say. Fair dinkum do you know how many good men and women, my parents included, you just wrongly insulted?

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

What a ridiculous, sweeping and downright stupid thing to say. Fair dinkum do you know how many good men and women, my parents included, you just wrongly insulted?

I'm not having a go at teachers for wanting the best for their children, just for trying to stop other parents from accessing that information and also being able to do what they think is best for their children.

It's not sweeping or stupid:

1) Most teachers want their children to attend a good school.

2) Most teacher support suppressing test results and league tables.

Which of these statements is not true of most teachers?