Manufacturing Industry Assistance - Ford pulls out of Australia (2 Viewers)

[Selador]

Ford will no longer manufacture cars in Australia.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-in-australia/story-e6frg6nf-1226648917020

Over the past decade taxpayers have subsidised Ford and Holden to the tune of $12 billion. This was meant to 'protect jobs', but the jobs have been lost anyway.

Should this industry assistance continue? Should the government continue propping up companies in order to keep a manufacturing sector in this country?

 

[townie]

No. No.

 

[SylviaB]

No. No.

But the government should waste money to keep useless government employees employed...

 

[townie]

But the government should waste money to keep useless government employees employed...

I didn't say that. But prove to me the method that the coalition will use to cut the public service will actually do that. They aren't cutting inefficient staff they are just dealing with it through natural attrition. As anybody who actually knows jack about the public service knows (i.e. not you) when there is no opportunity for development (because of a recruitment freeze) the good and efficient public servants, the employable ones, jump ship to the private sector or state/local govt, and the inefficient people stay/hold on for dear life. Or worse; the good people leave and are hired the next day as consultants on twice the pay so that the department can bypass the freeze. I don't have a problem with genuine reform of the public sector, but a recruitment freeze is a lazy, ideologically driven and ultimately band-aid solution to the issues. Much like throwing money at car manufacturers.

 

[SylviaB]

I didn't say that. But prove to me the method that the coalition will use to cut the public service will actually do that. They aren't cutting inefficient staff they are just dealing with it through natural attrition. As anybody who actually knows jack about the public service knows (i.e. not you) when there is no opportunity for development (because of a recruitment freeze) the good and efficient public servants, the employable ones, jump ship to the private sector or state/local govt, and the inefficient people stay/hold on for dear life. Or worse; the good people leave and are hired the next day as consultants on twice the pay so that the department can bypass the freeze. I don't have a problem with genuine reform of the public sector, but a recruitment freeze is a lazy, ideologically driven and ultimately band-aid solution to the issues. Much like throwing money at car manufacturers.

The problem isn't inefficient staff, it's the nature of public sector work per se. Obviously, wasteful public servants are worse than efficient ones, but the thing is these jobs don't exist in response to market demand, they are created because politicians say so. If these jobs really are productive, then they would exist in the private sector. If they wouldn't exist in the private sector, then they're probably not productive.

 

[isildurrrr1]

The problem isn't inefficient staff, it's the nature of public sector work per se. Obviously, wasteful public servants are worse than efficient ones, but the thing is these jobs don't exist in response to market demand, they are created because politicians say so. If these jobs really are productive, then they would exist in the private sector. If they wouldn't exist in the private sector, then they're probably not productive.

yeah i guess all those people working in DFAT, Dept of health and aging, dept of immigration and other departments are just wasteful. just let the private sector do the work.

Most public service pay is really really shit you do realize that right? And not a lot of people would want to live in canberra either.

And no the government shouldn't be subsidizing industry. Ford and Holden just need to figure out how to make better cars and market it better to consumers. You don't hear BMW, Mercedes and VW move their entire operation overseas. There's a reason why they keep it in Germany. Why should the Australian tax payer subsidize American companies in the first place?

 

[brent012]

You don't hear BMW, Mercedes and VW move their entire operation overseas. There's a reason why they keep it in Germany.

BMW, Mercedes and VW all build cars in other countries. BMW, at least, also design some of their cars in the US.

 

[SylviaB]

yeah i guess all those people working in DFAT, Dept of health and aging, dept of immigration and other departments are just wasteful. just let the private sector do the work.

the jobs essential for the functioning of core government services aren't the ones that are being cut. And these departments wouldn't need to be so large in the first place if the government wasn't so unnecessarily large.

Most public service pay is really really shit you do realize that right? And not a lot of people would want to live in canberra either.

"really really shit" oh jesus fucking wept

their jobs are typically really really cushy so excuse me if I don't cry myself to sleep over their tragic plight.

You don't hear BMW, Mercedes and VW move their entire operation overseas. There's a reason why they keep it in Germany.

they make cars in other countries

 

[isildurrrr1]

BMW, Mercedes and VW all build cars in other countries. BMW, at least, also design some of their cars in the US.

I know, that's why I said "move their entire operations overseas."

The reason they do it is to cut transportation costs rather than labour costs.

Mercedes used to produce in the US when they bought out chrysler, don't know if they still do.

Sylvia, Government jobs aren't as cushy as you think. So what departments do you think need to be cut then?

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Ford will no longer manufacture cars in Australia.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ing-in-australia/story-e6frg6nf-1226648917020

Over the past decade taxpayers have subsidised Ford and Holden to the tune of $12 billion. This was meant to 'protect jobs', but the jobs have been lost anyway.

Should this industry assistance continue? Should the government continue propping up companies in order to keep a manufacturing sector in this country?

No. No more assistance, should have let the industry die when it was supposed to X years ago

 

[Okashi]

Gold plated coffee machines worth $15,000 each for government departments. All in the name of boosting productivity of course. Department of environment spent $500,000 on pot plants and the Department for Education outdone themselves by spending 1 million. The sale of a billiard table for $6000 then subsequently spending 100k to find out whether the sale was value for money. The list goes on and on.

Who said public servants waste money. What an absurd idea.

 

[Okashi]

No. No more assistance, should have let the industry die when it was supposed to X years ago

Yeah so we get more people on Newstart and magically their skills can migrate to other industries. Top stuff mate.

 

[townie]

the jobs essential for the functioning of core government services aren't the ones that are being cut. And these departments wouldn't need to be so large in the first place if the government wasn't so unnecessarily large.

Wrong again. You are acting like the coalition has a plan to cut specific jobs for specific reasons. From the limited policy information out there the proposal is just an across the board recruitment freeze which affects departments based on their rate of attrition not their function.

 

[townie]

Gold plated coffee machines worth $15,000 each for government departments. All in the name of boosting productivity of course. Department of environment spent $500,000 on pot plants and the Department for Education outdone themselves by spending 1 million. The sale of a billiard table for $6000 then subsequently spending 100k to find out whether the sale was value for money. The list goes on and on.

Who said public servants waste money. What an absurd idea.

Thanks for quoting a liberal party publication sathius v2

 

[lochnessmonsta]

Gold plated coffee machines worth $15,000 each for government departments.

They werent actually gold-plated

http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/may/16/jamie-briggs/liberal-party-says-public-servants-buying-gold-pla/

 

[isildurrrr1]

theres so much misinformation on how our government works its astounding.

Okashi: Theres a reason why manufacturing is almost dead in aussie, everyone wants their kids to go to uni and get a "good" white collar job. I don't blame parents for trying to give their kids a better life, but the effect is nobody wants to do all the blue collar work. I've worked in a factory before and it fucking sucked. Attrition rate is pretty high for factories, hard to keep employees and what not.

edit: just because all the factory workers get laid off doesn't mean they'll be forever unemployed, most of them would find work in other industries. It's a faulty argument about "job loss."

 

[funkshen]

theres so much misinformation on how our government works its astounding.

Okashi: Theres a reason why manufacturing is almost dead in aussie, everyone wants their kids to go to uni and get a "good" white collar job. I don't blame parents for trying to give their kids a better life, but the effect is nobody wants to do all the blue collar work. I've worked in a factory before and it fucking sucked. Attrition rate is pretty high for factories, hard to keep employees and what not.

edit: just because all the factory workers get laid off doesn't mean they'll be forever unemployed, most of them would find work in other industries. It's a faulty argument about "job loss."

australian manufacturing is not dead because kids want to go to uni and no one wants to do blue collar work.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Yeah so we get more people on Newstart and magically their skills can migrate to other industries. Top stuff mate.

Are you the kind of person that would advocate breaking windows to give the glass maker something to do?

 

[Lolsmith]

Most public service pay is really really shit you do realize that right? And not a lot of people would want to live in canberra either.

Lying on the internet

And no the government shouldn't be subsidizing industry. Ford and Holden just need to figure out how to make better cars and market it better to consumers. You don't hear BMW, Mercedes and VW move their entire operation overseas. There's a reason why they keep it in Germany. Why should the Australian tax payer subsidize American companies in the first place?

dat cognitive dissonance

The sale of a billiard table for $6000 then subsequently spending 100k to find out whether the sale was value for money.

hahhahhahahaha no way, pls source this

theres so much misinformation on how our government works its astounding.

Okashi: Theres a reason why manufacturing is almost dead in aussie, everyone wants their kids to go to uni and get a "good" white collar job. I don't blame parents for trying to give their kids a better life, but the effect is nobody wants to do all the blue collar work. I've worked in a factory before and it fucking sucked. Attrition rate is pretty high for factories, hard to keep employees and what not.

edit: just because all the factory workers get laid off doesn't mean they'll be forever unemployed, most of them would find work in other industries. It's a faulty argument about "job loss."

complaining about misinformation

gives a misinformed opinion

outstanding

 

[Clean Sweep]

I'm still looking forward to the 2014 Falcon.