For those who have graduated.. where are you now? (2 Viewers)

[randomguy777]

I graduated couple years back, haven't found anything relevant. I know that most people like 95% of each class have not found anything substantial, which makes their degree worthless. There's obviously too many grads for too few jobs leaving many unaware disappointed and many practically unemployed (working in some other random job is irrelevant).

That being said I did major in applied finance/econ and like many others have wasted their time at uni.
I could go on for ages also why MQ isn't particularly good and also why you shouldn't be at uni if you didn't get like 98 +UAI/atar.

So I am wondering what other people are doing and I'd like to hear their stories. Unfortunately not many lurk around these forums.

 

[enoilgam]

Well, people need to have realistic expectations - this isnt the 1970s or 80s where you can just waltz out of uni and go straight into a high flying corporate role. Graduate programs offer the best opportunities for graduates, but realistically, the amount of places versus graduates is limited (especially outside of disciplines such as accounting and finance). When you graduate from uni, you need to be prepared to start building your career from the ground up - that may involve starting out in a data entry role or a really low level admin type position. There are opportunities out there, but most of them require experience, which you need to build. So dont think of things as being "uni - dream job", for most people, it will be "uni - unrelated entry level position - related entry level position - dream job".

 

[randomguy777]

Well you just said it, "for most people, it will be "uni - unrelated entry level position - related entry level position - dream job". See the thing is, most of us don't need uni degrees. If you went to a top5 selective/private school and done extremely well you can use that on your resume to convince your prospective employer to take you on for an entry level position and work your way up.

Thing is most of the entry level jobs that business/commerce graduates apply for, are at least 3-4 years behind those who applied when they were 18/19 years old. This is basically true for all the ones were unsuccessful in grad program or big 4 etc. Even accounting students find it tough to get basic relevant work experience.

I've compiled a bunch of career news for most disciplines on the current state of the job market.

http://tinyurl.com/ou5u64p

Still doesn't change the fact that most people studying at uni right now feel insecure. When they've graduated they will feel real angry and why wonder why after all that study and hardwork it all feels like a waste of time.

 

[enoilgam]

The value of a uni degree isnt what it used to be, but a lot of higher up jobs will require a degree - you are limiting your career growth without one.

Personally, I think the system is stupid in this country because it's very circular with professional careers - I mean most entry level roles require experience (strong logic there). There does need to be more support for people transitioning from uni to the workplace. However, whilst it is bad, you can still break into the professional world without a graduate program. You just need to be willing to put in the time and effort to build your career from the bottom up. Hence why having sound and reasonable expectations is a must.

 

[randomguy777]

What I'm saying is get a degree only if the employer or line of work requires one. In fact the most ideal situation would be to have direct employer contact. Like I'll do this course if it's really useful and be guaranteed employment for your company. Remember, we still have to write cover letters and still convince employers to take us on. Instead of that just use networks and get jobs. By far the best way to land a good starting career. Nepotism ftw!

Likewise if universities actually cared for your prospects they all should interview prospective students and ask 'why do you want to study this for?' Just like medicine for example, for the sake of looking out for students.

Still the numbers are horribly shocking. Each year the big 4 banks get like what 8000-10000 apps for no more 100 positions each maximum.(so 4 bank 400 positions nationally) big 4 acc may take similar numbers still resulting in 5% of applicants getting in. I saw another well known smaller company and 2000 apps for a graduate business analyst and only 30 were hired.

 

[enoilgam]

What I'm saying is get a degree only if the employer or line of work requires one. In fact the most ideal situation would be to have direct employer contact. Like I'll do this course if it's really useful and be guaranteed employment for your company. Remember, we still have to write cover letters and still convince employers to take us on. Instead of that just use networks and get jobs. By far the best way to land a good starting career. Nepotism ftw!

But the workplace doesnt necessarily work like that - a lot of jobs require a degree as a minimum qualification. The degree is what makes you eligible for roles, but experience is what actually gets you the job. Like, a lot of the positions I have applied for set a degree as being a requirement, but beyond that they dont care. I did fairly well in my degree (high average plus several awards) and I have never been asked about my degree or uni achievements in an interview. All they care about is experience - I'm fortunate enough to have a years worth of industry experience during uni and that is almost as valuable as my degree. That being said, without a degree, I wouldnt have been considered for these roles.

It sounds like you have had the wrong expectations and focus with uni. Like most people (myself included), you have gone into uni thinking degree = job, when in reality, uni is about building your experience and employability beyond your degree. I realised this towards the end of my degree and I was lucky enough to build a decent CV around my industry experience. Without that, I would be in a much worse off position.

 

[Trebla]

What I'm saying is get a degree only if the employer or line of work requires one. In fact the most ideal situation would be to have direct employer contact. Like I'll do this course if it's really useful and be guaranteed employment for your company. Remember, we still have to write cover letters and still convince employers to take us on. Instead of that just use networks and get jobs. By far the best way to land a good starting career. Nepotism ftw!

Likewise if universities actually cared for your prospects they all should interview prospective students and ask 'why do you want to study this for?' Just like medicine for example, for the sake of looking out for students.

Still the numbers are horribly shocking. Each year the big 4 banks get like what 8000-10000 apps for no more 100 positions each maximum.(so 4 bank 400 positions nationally) big 4 acc may take similar numbers still resulting in 5% of applicants getting in. I saw another well known smaller company and 2000 apps for a graduate business analyst and only 30 were hired.

The value in a degree is that it trains you to learn things quickly in a short space of time. People with degrees are far more employable and are paid more in general (there are exceptional cases of course) than those who aren't. It is also a means of demonstrating technical knowledge in some disciplines. For example, you obviously need an accounting degree to acquire accounting knowledge to become a professional accountant. That theory-based learning is something you usually don't have going straight into the workplace.

Graduate programs are competitive and really target the cream of the crop because they are designed to accelerate career progression (I was fortunate enough to be part of one). They are not designed to cater for everyone who finishes uni because the expectations that a company has of graduates is quite high and there are some who don't survive when they start working. Entry level positions are what the majority of graduates take up (whether they are relevant to the degree is a different matter) and work their way up from there.

I feel that this thread is relevant to this topic because a lot of people have this belief that they will automatically land their dream job when they graduate and complacency in not bothering to resume build is a trap that a lot of people fall into:
http://community.boredofstudies.org...graduate-employability-whilst-university.html

Also, one thing to keep in mind is that for a given set of credentials, how you present your application makes a huge difference in distinguishing yourself from the majority of applicants. You might find this thread useful:
http://community.boredofstudies.org...tment-process-part-1-online-applications.html

 

[obliviousninja]

i wanna be the next newbie

 

[ChrisAC]

Just curious, were you a P, CR or D student? and if you arent a D student, do u think being a D student would have helped you find a job after uni?

 

[Trebla]

Just curious, were you a P, CR or D student? and if you arent a D student, do u think being a D student would have helped you find a job after uni?

I was a D student (I didn't go to MQ though just posting advice in general here ) though a lot of grads I know were successful with C averages...not to mention MQ graduates made up the largest portion of the graduate intake in the organisation I work for. Yes, having pretty good uni marks is important but it should be treated in conjunction with other aspects such as work experience and extra-curriculars which also need to be strong in order to achieve that all-rounded quality.

 

[enoilgam]

Just curious, were you a P, CR or D student? and if you arent a D student, do u think being a D student would have helped you find a job after uni?

D average student with a few academic prizes - I'd say they dont really add to my employability beyond graduate programs (even then, the marks are a qualifying attribute, not something that is going to land me the role). Beyond that, they are virtually useless - most entry level jobs dont require you to submit a transcript. Also, these employers are more interested in my experience/soft skills - I dont even think any interviewer has even commented on my marks.

 

[Crobat]

dat feel when PwC has officially gotten rid of their graduate program

dat feel when the other Big 4s are going to follow soon

dat feel

 

[enoilgam]

dat feel when PwC has officially gotten rid of their graduate program

dat feel when the other Big 4s are going to follow soon

dat feel

I think PwC just takes their vacationers/cadets.

Just to edit my early point on grades, it does count more for some professions (i.e. Law, IB, Management Consulting).

 

[Crobat]

I think PwC just takes their vacationers/cadets.

Just to edit my early point on grades, it does count more for some professions (i.e. Law, IB, Management Consulting).

Yeah most of their grad positions are filled by vaccies/cadets so they're now just going to look for the remainder on LinkedIn pretty much. It's the same at the other Big 4 acct firms so give it like 3 or 4 years before they all get rid of their grad programs too.

 

[randomguy777]

@Trebla, nice post I agree with what you say and your good intentions for writing a very helpful guide but it doesn't change the fact that there are still too many students at university. Look at the number of jobs posted and number of people who apply for it. At the end of the day we all end up in vastly different jobs despite similar levels of education. If I were to give a crappy example to illustrate my point, there are so few courses out there yet so many different positions. Education has become very generic and broad, so generic that it almost has nothing to do with whatever job you're applying for. If cover letters and resumes need to be tailored to the position, so do educational programs too. Its the specialists who make the most money, so if I'm making 200k a year I wouldn't teach anyone my skills to replace myself unless he's helping me make more. Why would I want to be taught by someone who is making less than 100k a year.

Post graduation like everyone else, we all catchup with our friends so see where we are working etc.
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MQ has something like 90% international students studying acc/finance and barely any of them can speak fluent english at all and their attitude absolutely stinks. Horrible team work attitude, poor communication skills, lack of leadership, students mingle in their own small groups and unwilling to expand their network etc. I would never employ someone from there, despite some talented students choosing mq.


Interesting read:

http://www.afr.com/p/national/things_to_avoid_in_graduate_applications_Z9q5OoVZHxzTXDuIQhs5KK
http://www.afr.com/p/national/work_space/graduate_recruitment_lowest_since_0pTzsGAW08YIl9nKCPceYK

 

[Trebla]

I don't think the issue lies with the education programs that you are heavily criticising. Given the diversity of jobs out there you are never going to use everything you learnt in uni in one role. Even if educational programs were improved to tailor for industry employment then there is still a supply/demand issue. I am of the view that if students work hard and are determined enough they will eventually land a role that is relevant to their degree (it's just that some get there earlier than others). As enoil said you have to build your career from the ground up. You have to work for your career because it's such a competitive world out there.

 

[randomguy777]

I don't think the issue lies with the education programs that you are heavily criticising. Given the diversity of jobs out there you are never going to use everything you learnt in uni in one role. Even if educational programs were improved to tailor for industry employment then there is still a supply/demand issue. I am of the view that if students work hard and are determined enough they will eventually land a role that is relevant to their degree (it's just that some get there earlier than others). As enoil said you have to build your career from the ground up. You have to work for your career because it's such a competitive world out there.

Please don't talk to me as if I'm a little kid crybaby. 'If you work hard enough you'll get anywhere'. Well duh, blame nobody but yourself. You talk like a university marketing rep- 'Come and enrol you'll make big $$.

Obviously everyone is responsible for their own personal growth and career development. Who the hell doesn't want to forge their own successful career/company? Nobody's a crybaby. When you write that guide to improve employability, over 50% of them are going to fail to get into a good grad program and move back into their parents home and deviate into completely different career paths. I'm not saying grad programs are even remotely the ultimate goal and in fact its over rated. Like many others I don't get what the fuss is about it. But you see most people I talk to, like literally the entire class found their degrees useless. Are the students kidding themselves when they apply for something when their odds are like 5%. Doesn't hurt to apply right?

The point I'm trying to make is there's no need to get a bachelors degree if its not required for the profession. Educators can't sleep at night cause they are teaching students arts and history and whatnot useless english majors. Law is saturated like hell, as well as many other professions.

Companies are becoming less meritocratic and more about getting the best people you'd like to work with. Big companies are becoming like empires, or family companies like they have in korea and japan.

 

[enoilgam]

Given the diversity of jobs out there you are never going to use everything you learnt in uni in one role.

This is another important think to remember - not all roles are covered by university degrees. When you work in a real business, you begin to see that there are many roles which dont require a specific degree, but require at least a bachelor's level qualification (i.e. supply chain, strategy, transformation, policy etc).

 

[twinklegal19]

Companies are becoming less meritocratic and more about getting the best people you'd like to work with.

I don't see anything wrong with the latter. Care to elaborate? Source?

 

[enoilgam]

I don't see anything wrong with the latter. Care to elaborate? Source?

This trend has been going on for a while. This is a HR era - these days, the candidate with the greatest resume does not always get the job. I've sat in on employee selection at work and the main thing the managers look for is "Who is the best fit for the organisation, work team and job".