the 2 aussies getting execuated in Indonesia (1 Viewer)

[obliviousninja]

I saw this post that 402068385 liked on facebook. Was a bit curious. Had a read. And I can understand the internal perspective.

http://therealsingapore.com/content/when-country-weak-it-will-be-bullied

 

[BLIT2014]

No, and I think it's dumb.

They are our citizens. They shouldn't be punished by some 3rd world country's primitive punishments.

They broke the laws of a different country in the country itself.

America still has the death penalty.. and personally I'd prefer to be shot then injected.

 

[anomalousdecay]

The political position Joko is in has played a major role to influence the decision. The arrogance towards killing them has purely political motives. If he were to send them home and alive, imagine the impression this leaves on the law in Indonesia. This will make Joko and the Indonesian law seem weak and easy to manipulate and influence by external forces (for example, the Australian government is trying to manipulate a decision here). The political arrogance is a must for Joko. His other option, letting them go and alive, can lead to damaging results politically for Indonesia.

Given how the media and Australian government has inflated the issue, this just gives more of a reason for Joko to keep the political arrogance applied to the situation. In saying this, Joko's mistake was imposing the death penalty in the first place, because the shitstorm that has occurred has left him in a position where his options are very limited. Back then the options were plentiful, but after everything has happened he can't do much without damaging the image of Indonesia now.

And for the record I have no opinion on the matter of what happens to the two on death row, as I'm not in a position to judge or make a decision.

 

[isildurrrr1]

No, and I think it's dumb.

They are our citizens. They shouldn't be punished by some 3rd world country's primitive punishments.

So aussies don't have to follow laws of countries they enter then?

Don't want to be punished by '3rd world countries' don't fucking go there then.

 

[isildurrrr1]

The political position Joko is in has played a major role to influence the decision. The arrogance towards killing them has purely political motives.

I think it was politically motivated to not give clemency but their sentences were handed YEARS before joko was in power.

If you read the media and comments by people at the time of the arrest, Aussies couldn't give a shit about these two getting death. We didn't make that big of a fuss when singapore hung an australian for drug smuggling.

Chan and Sukrywhawterver weren't just 'smugglers.' they got death due to aggravating factors such as intimidating and coercing people into drug smuggling.

The AFP was more than happy to hand them over to the indonesians.

 

[_traveler_]

I think it was politically motivated to not give clemency but their sentences were handed YEARS before joko was in power.

If you read the media and comments by people at the time of the arrest, Aussies couldn't give a shit about these two getting death. We didn't make that big of a fuss when singapore hung an australian for drug smuggling.

Chan and Sukrywhawterver weren't just 'smugglers.' they got death due to aggravating factors such as intimidating and coercing people into drug smuggling.

The AFP was more than happy to hand them over to the indonesians.

The key questions for the people of Indonesia is whether or Joko has the will to assert Indonesia's authority within the world. This was only worsened by the Australian government's attempt to threaten and coerce Indonesia to release them. Thank god both our nations don't have WMDs. Two aggressive leaders, both willing to assert their political will for domestic purposes.

 

[Queenroot]

This case aside, I am still against the death penalty. For any crime at all, no matter how heinous. Every criminal should be individually dealt with and rehabikitated, I'd rather my taxes go to the betterment of them as a person than cold murder.
People can change if given the right guidance, understanding and patience.

Locking them up in prison and leaving them there isn't going to do that and putting a bullet into their heads is only going to stop others because they're instilling fear into the masses. People have to understand why what they're doing is wrong, not be scared into not doing it.


Anyway this is just all my personal opinion, I just don't have it my heart to think someone deserves death and I don't find it as a genuine solution for preventing crime.

 

[nerdasdasd]

I don't agree or disagree with the death penalty as there are pros and cons to both sides.

Saying that, I don't think Australia's diplomatic relations with Indonesia were worth it for those two individual.

 

[isildurrrr1]

A foreign person is in a foreign country, they break the law, they should be banned and ejected from the country. Why would they want to keep foreign criminals in their own country. It makes no sense. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to palm them off to their home country?

So a chinese national imports 14 kilos of meth then we just send them back? That's a bit retarded mate. It essentially creates lawlessness for foreign nationals. You go to a foreign country, its their jurisdiction.

They have to follow the laws of other countries, but should be allowed to be PUNISHED here.

That's quite an imperialist attitude. ever heard the concept of national sovereignty? How would you feel if a chinese national got arrested here for murder charges and got sent home for a slap on the wrist.

They should have been able to come back to Australia and punished here. I'm pretty sure I've seen this happen before.

We tried a deal, it didn't go through. In fact, the AFP willingly tipped off the Indonesians and had them arrested in indonesia at the airport. It's called cooperative policing on transnational crimes.

 

[Schmeag]

They have to follow the laws of other countries, but should be allowed to be PUNISHED here.

A foreign person is in a foreign country, they break the law, they should be banned and ejected from the country. Why would they want to keep foreign criminals in their own country. It makes no sense. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to palm them off to their home country?

Perhaps because there are laws that dictate the circumstances where someone may be extradited. In some cases, getting banned and ejected from a country may be considered a punishment in itself and might not be considered grave enough. I am neither an expert in Australian or Indonesian law, so I have no idea.

Either way, we are passive bystanders in this particular event, regardless of belief.

 

[anomalousdecay]

I think it was politically motivated to not give clemency but their sentences were handed YEARS before joko was in power.

If you read the media and comments by people at the time of the arrest, Aussies couldn't give a shit about these two getting death. We didn't make that big of a fuss when singapore hung an australian for drug smuggling.

Chan and Sukrywhawterver weren't just 'smugglers.' they got death due to aggravating factors such as intimidating and coercing people into drug smuggling.

The AFP was more than happy to hand them over to the indonesians.

I actually haven't bothered to follow the issue all that much, but originally I thought it was for something quite recent lol.

It wouldn't make sense though why AFP wouldn't mind to hand them over, then the PM tries to get them back with such methods.

 

[Schmeag]

If you read the media and comments by people at the time of the arrest, Aussies couldn't give a shit about these two getting death. We didn't make that big of a fuss when singapore hung an australian for drug smuggling.

Didn't we make a fuss about the Van Nguyen thing? I remember a lot of similar news coverage.

 

[_traveler_]

This case aside, I am still against the death penalty. For any crime at all, no matter how heinous. Every criminal should be individually dealt with and rehabikitated, I'd rather my taxes go to the betterment of them as a person than cold murder.
People can change if given the right guidance, understanding and patience.

Locking them up in prison and leaving them there isn't going to do that and putting a bullet into their heads is only going to stop others because they're instilling fear into the masses. People have to understand why what they're doing is wrong, not be scared into not doing it.


Anyway this is just all my personal opinion, I just don't have it my heart to think someone deserves death and I don't find it as a genuine solution for preventing crime.

I would put the argument to you that is it worth keeping a person alive with no parole and life imprisonment for 40k a year when that money could be better spent elsewhere? Just food for thought. If I was sentenced to life in prison, and it cost that much for them to keep me alive. I would rather take the bullet and give the money to actual children in hope that they don't make the same mistakes.

 

[Schmeag]

I would put the argument to you that is it worth keeping a person alive with no parole and life imprisonment for 40k a year when that money could be better spent elsewhere? Just food for thought. If I was sentenced to life in prison, and it cost that much for them to keep me alive. I would rather take the bullet and give the money to actual children in hope that they don't make the same mistakes.

I was under the impression that the costs of enforcing the death penalty could be more costly in some form or other (probably statistics for Western countries).

 

[Schmeag]

Meanwhile two Iranians have their lives spared after importing 40kg of methamphetamines in to Indonesia.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bali-ni...mmuted-to-life-in-prison-20150420-1mpe5n.html

A number of the Bali nine, Australian citizens, were also given life imprisonment.

 

[_traveler_]

I was under the impression that the costs of enforcing the death penalty could be more costly in some form or other (probably statistics for Western countries).

I believe in terms of legal pursuit and appeal, yes it is more costly. However, I wouldn't contest it personally.

 

[Schmeag]

I believe in terms of legal pursuit and appeal, yes it is more costly. However, I wouldn't contest it personally.

From my limited impression of your internet forum persona, you don't strike me as someone who would commit a crime which would result in a death penalty sentence.

 

[Queenroot]

I would put the argument to you that is it worth keeping a person alive with no parole and life imprisonment for 40k a year when that money could be better spent elsewhere? Just food for thought. If I was sentenced to life in prison, and it cost that much for them to keep me alive. I would rather take the bullet and give the money to actual children in hope that they don't make the same mistakes.

Every life is of value.

The only people that deserve to die, are the ones who choose to. So if you wanted the bullet in your head instead of being paid to be in prison, then by all means. Your way of rehabilitating would be sacrificing yourself so that others don't make the same mistake.

 

[_traveler_]

Every life is of value.

The only people that deserve to die, are the ones who choose to. So if you wanted the bullet in your head instead of being paid to be in prison, then by all means. Your way of rehabilitating would be sacrificing yourself so that others don't make the same mistake.

But you missed my point. I was suggesting that instead of the death penalty, you would get life sentence. There is no parole and there is no chance of getting out. Effectively, even if you were rehabilitated you would not be able to contribute to society which is the case of most crimes that don't get the death penalty: life in prison with no parole.

 

[Queenroot]

But you missed my point. I was suggesting that instead of the death penalty, you would get life sentence. There is no parole and there is no chance of getting out. Effectively, even if you were rehabilitated you would not be able to contribute to society which is the case of most crimes that don't get the death penalty: life in prison with no parole.

I meant that they should remain in jail until they have been rehabilitated. I don't agree with no parole.

No parole only if rehabilitation has failed.

And unless you are actually mentally ill, then you should be able to be rehabilitated.