Using MX2 skills in Physics exam? (2 Viewers)

[jaked03]

Hey,

Is it true that the Physics HSC markers may refuse to give you marks if you solved a question using your knowledge from mathematics extension 2?

Thank you.

 

[Wet_Lettuce]

That does sound correct. If you're using calculus in a non-calculus course (It should involve calculus ) then technically you're going outside of the syllabus to solve the problems and not using your knowledge of the course. Also could piss them off if they don't understand the complex processes you've used and may delay the marking... and considering that they get payed for how many papers they mark in the hour I don't blame them haha

 

[Idkwhattoput]

Pretty sad

 

[Arrowshaft]

Derive calculus.

 

[jazz519]

Hey,

Is it true that the Physics HSC markers may refuse to give you marks if you solved a question using your knowledge from mathematics extension 2?

Thank you.

Like the whole point with that is probably if you just quote a random formula not on the formula sheet but don't prove / derive it. But overall you are not going to need to use extension 2 maths to solve physics projectile questions. Then think of it in the marker's mind set you have done a 3 marker or 4 marker question in 2 lines with a formula you didn't derive, which is risky as hell if you consider you get the wrong number due to subbing something in wrong and they don't recognise the formula you used you might end up getting 0. Personally, I would not take that risk in your HSC exam. It's good to know those types of things and making links between different subjects which will be beneficial once you get to uni having that skill, but for the sake of your ATAR / HSC mark I would avoid it. Just a tip, aside from projectile motion there are quite a few formulas in the syllabus that you can't just quote and actually have to derive each time you use it. Common examples include the orbital velocity (V=sqrt(GM/r)) and escape velocity (V=sqrt(2GM/r)), so make sure you know how to derive those because you will have to do so before using them (it is often one of the marks in the marking criteria --> see the image below)

 

[TheOnePheeph]

What about much more simplistic things that extension 2 like the quadratic formula? There are many projectile questions that are made much easier using it, but will they mark us down for it?

 

[jazz519]

What about much more simplistic things that extension 2 like the quadratic formula? There are many projectile questions that are made much easier using it, but will they mark us down for it?

Nah using the quadratic formula is fine

 

[TheOnePheeph]

Nah using the quadratic formula is fine

Ok sweet just making sure. There is a lot of fairly simplistic maths they don't like in physics haha (cough cough basic calculus)

 

[Drdusk]

Lol maaaate if we couldn't use quadratic formula it would be outrageous and I would be calling up NESA fr.

 

[jazz519]

Ok sweet just making sure. There is a lot of fairly simplistic maths they don't like in physics haha (cough cough basic calculus)

Yeah that is true and probably the biggest pitfall of the HSC physics syllabus and chemistry syllabuses, that it doesn't contain any calculus because uni physics / science is very calculus and maths dependent, but sadly it's just something you have to accept and work within the confines of to ensure you get the best mark you can

 

[TheOnePheeph]

Yeah that is true and probably the biggest pitfall of the HSC physics syllabus and chemistry syllabuses, that it doesn't contain any calculus because uni physics / science is very calculus and maths dependent, but sadly it's just something you have to accept and work within the confines of to ensure you get the best mark you can

Just out of curiosity is there a lot of calculus/higher maths in chemistry at uni? Im condering doubling in maths and science next year but am wondering if I should do chem as well as physics courses, but was under the impression the maths in it was quite basic.

 

[jazz519]

Just out of curiosity is there a lot of calculus/higher maths in chemistry at uni? Im condering doubling in maths and science next year but am wondering if I should do chem as well as physics courses.

Physics yeah there is a lot of maths. Like actually what you would class as actual maths where you use differentiation, integration, matricies etc

In Chemistry some areas yes there is a maths, other not so much because it depends on the type of chemistry, but as part of a science degree you do have to take both first year maths courses. In physical and inorganic chemistry there is maths in terms of applying quantum mechanics to the electrons and orbitals, we do derive the formulas, but that is more of a you see it in the lecture and do it at home to understand what's happening, rather than they ask you to do that in the exam. Where as in physics you actually go into the nitty-gritty of the maths with quantum mechanics. Chemistry is more so an applied type of science where you are given problems where the calculations aren't so hard but the thought process behind what to do is difficult. Organic chemistry there is basically 0 maths, because it deals with electron movement (so how like you learn about addition reactions in HSC where you just jump from reactant to product, which is more of a memorisation thing and sometimes you have isomers in those reactions, but you just assume you can make any of those isomers, which in real life is not true. Instead we learn about those types of reaction in depth where you see how the bonds break and electrons move, so some simple reaction like that we show through 6-7 steps so you understand how the reactions are actually working and from that understanding we are able to predict things like which product will be made. Most shocking to me because I thought I was gonna go be more interested in the more maths focused chemistry courses, but organic chemistry is probably my favourite course so far because things like what I described before are challenging but gives you a strong understanding of chemistry at the fundamentals. Analytical chemistry there is some maths but not really like integration etc, because computers do all that stuff. Best description I can give of analytical chemistry is like module 8 of HSC Chemistry on steroids, where we learn about using those NMR spectra, IR etc and use it on molecules that sometimes have over 30 atoms

So overall chemistry in uni I would say is not that as maths based as physics, so if you are wanting to do maths stuff go for physics I would say

 

[TheOnePheeph]

Physics yeah there is a lot of maths. Like actually what you would class as actual maths where you use differentiation, integration, matricies etc

In Chemistry some areas yes there is a maths, other not so much because it depends on the type of chemistry, but as part of a science degree you do have to take both first year maths courses. In physical and inorganic chemistry there is maths in terms of applying quantum mechanics to the electrons and orbitals, we do derive the formulas, but that is more of a you see it in the lecture and do it at home to understand what's happening, rather than they ask you to do that in the exam. Where as in physics you actually go into the nitty-gritty of the maths with quantum mechanics. Chemistry is more so an applied type of science where you are given problems where the calculations aren't so hard but the thought process behind what to do is difficult. Organic chemistry there is basically 0 maths, because it deals with electron movement (so how like you learn about addition reactions in HSC where you just jump from reactant to product, which is more of a memorisation thing and sometimes you have isomers in those reactions, but you just assume you can make any of those isomers, which in real life is not true. Instead we learn about those types of reaction in depth where you see how the bonds break and electrons move, so some simple reaction like that we show through 6-7 steps so you understand how the reactions are actually working and from that understanding we are able to predict things like which product will be made. Most shocking to me because I thought I was gonna go be more interested in the more maths focused chemistry courses, but organic chemistry is probably my favourite course so far because things like what I described before are challenging but gives you a strong understanding of chemistry at the fundamentals. Analytical chemistry there is some maths but not really like integration etc, because computers do all that stuff. Best description I can give of analytical chemistry is like module 8 of HSC Chemistry on steroids, where we learn about using those NMR spectra, IR etc and use it on molecules that sometimes have over 30 atoms

So overall chemistry in uni I would say is not that as maths based as physics, so if you are wanting to do maths stuff go for physics I would say

Alright thanks for that. Not gonna lie though, that organic chemistry you were talking about sounds sick, I may do chem anyway despite the lack of as much maths.

 

[Drdusk]

Just out of curiosity is there a lot of calculus/higher maths in chemistry at uni? Im condering doubling in maths and science next year but am wondering if I should do chem as well as physics courses, but was under the impression the maths in it was quite basic.

Can't really put a number but A LOT. Especially in your second first year Physics course where you will literally be hammering out fun Integration problems in Physics. A lot of the 4u Integration shows up here along with Contour/Line Integration. You'll see stuff like



and also use Integration to derive Magnetic fields, Electric fields etc. I remember we had this incredibly fun question in our final where we had to use integration to derive the loss in potential energy when small particles come together for the formation of a planet.

You'll also use partial derivatives and learn the Schrodinger's equation, although not that much in depth because you need Multivariable calculus under your belt

 

[TheOnePheeph]

Can't really put a number but A LOT. Especially in your second first year Physics course where you will literally be hammering out fun Integration problems in Physics. A lot of the 4u Integration shows up here along with Contour/Line Integration. You'll see stuff like



and also use Integration to derive Magnetic fields, Electric fields etc. I remember we had this incredibly fun question in our final where we had to use integration to derive the loss in potential energy when small particles come together for the formation of a planet.

You'll also use partial derivatives and learn the Schrodinger's equation, although not that much in depth because you need Multivariable calculus under your belt

Oh lol I know physics is extremely maths heavy, I was more referring to chem. I'm almost definitely going to do physics at this point as long as I get solid hsc marks for the subject

 

[Drdusk]

I was more referring to chem.

I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that...

 

[Arrowshaft]

Can't really put a number but A LOT. Especially in your second first year Physics course where you will literally be hammering out fun Integration problems in Physics. A lot of the 4u Integration shows up here along with Contour/Line Integration. You'll see stuff like



and also use Integration to derive Magnetic fields, Electric fields etc. I remember we had this incredibly fun question in our final where we had to use integration to derive the loss in potential energy when small particles come together for the formation of a planet.

You'll also use partial derivatives and learn the Schrodinger's equation, although not that much in depth because you need Multivariable calculus under your belt

Dude you’re getting me hyped up!!! can’t wait to do vector calculus and delve into tensors and all those fun stuff so I can finally learn general relativity!!

 

[Drdusk]

Dude you’re getting me hyped up!!! can’t wait to do vector calculus and delve into tensors and all those fun stuff so I can finally learn general relativity!!

Calm down there, General relativity is 4th year uni Physics
Love the enthusiasm though. You should watch a youtuber called Andrew Doston, he does awesome videos on this kind of stuff.

I'm actually learning Complex Analysis and Multivariable Calculus this term and boy are they hard but fun. Especially Complex Analysis, I like it much more.

 

[Arrowshaft]

Calm down there, General relativity is 4th year uni Physics
Love the enthusiasm though. You should watch a youtuber called Andrew Doston, he does awesome videos on this kind of stuff.

I'm actually learning Complex Analysis and Multivariable Calculus this term and boy are they hard but fun. Especially Complex Analysis, I like it much more.

I do watch Andrew Dotson, also 3b1b, pbs space time, veritasium, papa flammy, etc

 

[Arrowshaft]

Calm down there, General relativity is 4th year uni Physics
Love the enthusiasm though. You should watch a youtuber called Andrew Doston, he does awesome videos on this kind of stuff.

I'm actually learning Complex Analysis and Multivariable Calculus this term and boy are they hard but fun. Especially Complex Analysis, I like it much more.

Real analysis is just very rigorous from what I’ve heard, everyone doing maths at uni seems to prefer complex analysis