A revelation... (2 Viewers)

[na110793]

Today, at uni, I was going into one of my lectures and looking to find a seat with a mate. At some point before the lecture, while people were talking, some rude di*k starts screaming at the top of his voice about how "...in 2012, he cannot believe that gay marriage and gender equality still hasn't been been accepted by the government and society in general". Afterwards, he gave out pamphlets on some pro LGBTQIA rally this Saturday. I thought:

"How can he voice his opinion on something that I find offensive, yet I can't voice my opinion on something that HE finds offensive?"

​

My uni has a strict policy regarding issues pertaining to discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. Why is it that people find it taboo that I+others don't accept gay/LGBTQIA rights? Why can't we voice our opinion on this issue? Why are we shunned and treated as social pariahs? What sort of democracy do we live in, and what sort of freedom of speech is afforded to us, when the very thing we want to voice our opinions on can land us in hot water legally?


Discuss.​

 

[mirakon]

So your idea of democracy is to deprive those of another sexual orientation of their rights?

To me it sounds like you're calling on democracy to allow you to tell people they don't have equal rights which strikes me as hypocritical

 

[na110793]

So your idea of democracy is to deprive those of another sexual orientation of their rights?

To me it sounds like you're calling on democracy to allow you to tell people they don't have equal rights which strikes me as hypocritical

No. My idea of a democracy is being able to voice my opinion without getting figuratively fucked by the PC bullshit.

 

[mirakon]

Can you justify your opinion? Please do, I am interested

 

[na110793]

Can you justify your opinion? Please do, I am interested

I'll put it to you simply:

I walk into the Tower building of UTS tomorrow, handing out flyers that are anti-LGBTQIA marriage rights/adoption rights/surrogacy rights. I talk about a rally that's happening soon, ask people to sign my anti-gay marriage petition, and talk about my group's main aims and objectives (which happen to be right wing [but not religious conservative]).

John Doe walks into the Tower building of UTS tomorrow, hands out flyers that are pro-LGBTQIA marriage rights/adoption rights/surrogacy rights. He talks about a rally that's happening soon, asks people to sign his anti-gay marriage petition, and talks about his group's main aims and objectives (which happen to be left wing).

We both speak without using derogatory phrases.

Now answer this question:

Who is being disrespectful?

 

[mirakon]

You missed my point. My point is that people who are pro gay marriage have raised several arguments and reasons as to why they have that position. They aren't simply forcing this opinion down your throats, nor are they discriminating against you. They are not robbing you of your rights and have attempted to justify their position with reason.

What are your reasons for opposing their position? What is your reason for being anti-gay? If its just pure spite without reason or logic, then why should you be allowed to express it?

 

[na110793]

I understand my views will offend. You have been warned.

It isn't spite. It isn't religious based either. I just feel that people that don't naturally reproduce with their "partner" who happens to be of the same sex (excluding circumstances of in vitro fertilisation, where heterosexual couples cannot reproduce) offspring shouldn't be allowed to be in union, much less be afforded the right and privilege of rearing children (granted, some hetero couples have a history of violence on their children, but we shouldn't let a few bad apples spoil the harvest). I fail to see why gay people, with no scientific justification for being gay (i.e. they just feel gay), are accepted into today's society.

I fail to see why transsexual and transvestites (who are, quite literally, at odds with human nature) should be afforded rights for being transsexuals or transvestites. I'm at odds as to why people can go and have sex change operations, just because they feel different to their birth gender. I don't understand how people can be asexual, or genderless. I don't understand why people choose to have their sexual reproductive organs removed. With no scientific basis. How is it that people can just "be" gay? Or transvestite? Or asexual/genderless? How can people be bisexual? How can these things be explained scientifically, with evidence? Can the LGBTQIA "gene" (for lack of a better word) be found? If it exists? I've seen stories on 60 Minutes, read stories on reputable websites, where men become women, women become men, and they have a child? What will that child say? "My mother is my father, and my father is a neuter?". Or surrogacy, where two men look for a woman, who will never meet the child (and vice versa).

I intensely dislike how the LGBTQIA community has the Mardi Gras here in Sydney and pride parades abroad. I don't want to walk down the street and have a flamboyant she male thrusting his groin in my face. Why is this considered "unique" and "culturally enriching" and a "necessity in society"?

 

[Absolutezero]

 

[Absolutezero]

I'll put it to you simply:

I walk into the Tower building of UTS tomorrow, handing out flyers that are anti-LGBTQIA marriage rights/adoption rights/surrogacy rights. I talk about a rally that's happening soon, ask people to sign my anti-gay marriage petition, and talk about my group's main aims and objectives (which happen to be right wing [but not religious conservative]).

John Doe walks into the Tower building of UTS tomorrow, hands out flyers that are pro-LGBTQIA marriage rights/adoption rights/surrogacy rights. He talks about a rally that's happening soon, asks people to sign his anti-gay marriage petition, and talks about his group's main aims and objectives (which happen to be left wing).

We both speak without using derogatory phrases.

Now answer this question:

Who is being disrespectful?

I don't think you'd have a problem doing it, from a legal perspective. Socially, people may not agree with you, but I don't see anything stopping you from doing it.

 

[na110793]

You failed to see my point. I clearly said in my little hypothetical situation "...(which happen to be right wing [but not religious conservative])."

 

[Absolutezero]

I understand my views will offend. You have been warned.

It isn't spite. It isn't religious based either. I just feel that people that don't naturally reproduce with their "partner" who happens to be of the same sex (excluding circumstances of in vitro fertilisation, where heterosexual couples cannot reproduce) offspring shouldn't be allowed to be in union, much less be afforded the right and privilege of rearing children (granted, some hetero couples have a history of violence on their children, but we shouldn't let a few bad apples spoil the harvest). I fail to see why gay people, with no scientific justification for being gay (i.e. they just feel gay), are accepted into today's society.

Why are those couples who can't produce naturally excepted. You're making exceptions because they align with your views. Children of gay couples are at no real disadvantage, and I know gay couples who would make better parents than a vast majority of straight couples.

Scientific opinion on being 'born' gay is debatable, but certainly being gay is not 'choice' in many cases and is not something as simply as you make it out to be.

I fail to see why transsexual and transvestites (who are, quite literally, at odds with human nature) should be afforded rights for being transsexuals or transvestites. I'm at odds as to why people can go and have sex change operations, just because they feel different to their birth gender. I don't understand how people can be asexual, or genderless. I don't understand why people choose to have their sexual reproductive organs removed. With no scientific basis. How is it that people can just "be" gay? Or transvestite? Or asexual/genderless? How can people be bisexual? How can these things be explained scientifically, with evidence? Can the LGBTQIA "gene" (for lack of a better word) be found? If it exists? I've seen stories on 60 Minutes, read stories on reputable websites, where men become women, women become men, and they have a child? What will that child say? "My mother is my father, and my father is a neuter?". Or surrogacy, where two men look for a woman, who will never meet the child (and vice versa).

I think you're misrepresenting what is natural, instead aligning it with some sort of pre-expectation of what you want it to be. People are born with more than one sex organ, people are born with imbalances in testosterone and oestrogen. There are many factors that can lead to 'abnormal' sexual function.

I intensely dislike how the LGBTQIA community has the Mardi Gras here in Sydney and pride parades abroad. I don't want to walk down the street and have a flamboyant she male thrusting his groin in my face. Why is this considered "unique" and "culturally enriching" and a "necessity in society"?

That's a separate issue, and you could probably find LGBTQIA people who agree with you. It's an event that stemmed out of cultural oppression to become and icon in its own right.

 

[na110793]

Why are those couples who can't produce naturally. You're making exceptions because they align with your views. Children of gay couples are at no real disadvantage, and I know gay couples who would make better parents than a vast majority of straight couples.

Scientific opinion on being 'born' gay is debatable, but certainly being gay is not 'choice' in many cases and is not something as simply as you make it out to be.

I think you're misrepresenting what is natural, instead aligning it with some sort of pre-expectation of what you want it to be. People are born with more than one sex organ, people are born with imbalances in testosterone and oestrogen. There are many factors that can lead to 'abnormal' sexual function.

That's a separate issue, and you could probably find LGBTQIA people who agree with you. It's an event that stemmed out of cultural oppression to become and icon in its own right.

Like I said, there are heterosexual couples who mistreat their children, and I abhor that. I think they should be punished and their children put in foster care.

Since there is not solid scientific evidence to support being born gay, why should their "plight" be supported? They don't represent a significant percentage in Australia, or even the world.

But not something that would warrant a need for awareness?

Why though? Why should we celebrate what is in most cases, choice? It's like the bra burnings of the 60s and 70s during the 2nd wave of feminism.

 

[funkshen]

holding a minority view is tough

a revelation indeed.

 

[Absolutezero]

Like I said, there are heterosexual couples who mistreat their children, and I abhor that. I think they should be punished and their children put in foster care.

Since there is not solid scientific evidence to support being born gay, why should their "plight" be supported? They don't represent a significant percentage in Australia, or even the world.

There is no solid scientific evidence to support your religion, why should your religion be supported? It is at conflict with most others and, while a sizable proportion, does not represent the majority on a global scale. Why should the opinions of your doctrine be supported?

The answer is because we allow the opinions of others to exist, and cater our legal system in order not to impose upon the basic rights of others.

 

[na110793]

There is no solid scientific evidence to support your religion, why should your religion be supported? It is at conflict with most others and, while a sizable proportion, does not represent the majority on a global scale. Why should the opinions of your doctrine be supported?

The answer is because we allow the opinions of others to exist, and cater our legal system in order not to impose upon the basic rights of others.

Why do you keep bringing up religion? Completely irrelevant in this situation. And Christianity is a massive religion, representing almost 20% of the worlds population. Homosexuality represents, at most, 10% of the worlds population (using the Kingsley scale).

 

[LoveHateSchool]

So the thing about about LBQTQIA rights:
By having the same rights allows ALL people to make a choice about what life they want to leave. Allowing others to lead a lifestyle different to yours does NOT impact you. Why should you dictate how others live? How would you like it if you were forced to lead a lifestyle that was not for you? Just because tattoos are legal, doesn't mean you have to get one, same with abortions, piercings etc. and a whole number of things.

I think you have a pretty limited understanding of gender and sexual identity given you don't understand asexuals etc. I think you would be surprised at the percentage of homosexuals and bisexuals in the world, yes it is a minority percentage but given the population of our world, it is a significant population. And I have a feeling many people hide this aspect of themselves due to discrimination.

So in answer to your question, I don't think you'd get in legal trouble for distributing your materials, but I hope it would be socially frowned upon by the people at your uni.

 

[Absolutezero]

Why do you keep bringing up religion? Completely irrelevant in this situation. And Christianity is a massive religion, representing almost 20% of the worlds population. Homosexuality represents, at most, 10% of the worlds population (using the Kingsley scale).

How is 20 and 10% massively different? Both are a fractional proportion of the total population. My point is that you are denying people basic rights, in the same way basic rights were denying to interracial couples years ago. And your basing your opinions on either doctrine or loopholed reasoning.

On your original point:

"How can he voice his opinion on something that I find offensive, yet I can't voice my opinion on something that HE finds offensive?

You can express your opinion on things he finds offensive. There is no system in place to stop you expressing your opinions on the issue, legal or otherwise. I don't see what your main problem is.

 

[na110793]

I don't expect anyone to understand my views. I know they are warped, and I am a warped individual. My statement is that I don't consider LGBTQIA people normal. I consider them abnormal. They don't fulfil what I consider normal.
I am not trolling, nor do I ask for flaming. So far, I haven't insulted anyone.

 

[SunnyScience]

Everyone deserves to be treated equally.
So what if someone is black, white, gay, straight, female, male, transgender, comedic, a punk rocker etc.etc.etc.
We are all human.
There is no difference.
We all deserve the same rights, because we are this - human.
Who is to say you can't do x because you like the same sexual organ you were born with.
GOD HELP US IF SOMEONE WERE TO ACTUALLY BE THEMSELVES.

 

[SunnyScience]

Today, at uni, I was going into one of my lectures and looking to find a seat with a mate. At some point before the lecture, while people were talking, some rude di*k starts screaming at the top of his voice about how "...in 2012, he cannot believe that gay marriage and gender equality still hasn't been been accepted by the government and society in general". Afterwards, he gave out pamphlets on some pro LGBTQIA rally this Saturday. I thought:

"How can he voice his opinion on something that I find offensive, yet I can't voice my opinion on something that HE finds offensive?"

​

My uni has a strict policy regarding issues pertaining to discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. Why is it that people find it taboo that I+others don't accept gay/LGBTQIA rights? Why can't we voice our opinion on this issue? Why are we shunned and treated as social pariahs? What sort of democracy do we live in, and what sort of freedom of speech is afforded to us, when the very thing we want to voice our opinions on can land us in hot water legally?


Discuss.​

But I do see your point.
Maybe now you will know how it feels to have your opinions and what you feel is right and unequal to be socially oppressed because a huge chunk of the planet disagrees with you.