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jb_nc

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Man Kills Suspected Intruders While Protecting Neighbor's Property Shooter's Legal Right Questioned
Nov. 17, 2007 —

Texans are debating if a man who said he was defending his neighbor's property when he shot and killed two suspected burglars was within his rights.

Texas state law allows people to use deadly force in order to protect their property. And so far, Pasadena, Texas, resident Joe Horn has not been charged in the shooting deaths of Manuel De Jesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, earlier this week.

Horn, 61 ran out of his house when he suspected the men were attempting to burglarize his neighbor's home. He called 911 to alert authorities of the situation, and the conversation has been preserved on tape.

Joe Horn: Hurry up man. Catch these guys, will ya? 'Cause I ain't gonna. I'm gonna be honest with ya. I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this.

The dispatcher begged him to wait for police instead of taking any action.

Horn: You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
911 Dispatcher: Don't go outside.

On the recording, Horn can be heard threatening to shoot the men if they move.

Horn: Move, you're dead.

Still, Horn's attorney insists his client is not an out-of-control vigilante.

"Joe is not a vigilante," said the attorney, Tom Lambright. "He's not a Rambo. He is exactly the opposite of that. He's a nice, loving family man."

But Ortiz's wife, Diamond Morgan, said she believes Horn used excessive force.

"[Horn] said that he feared for his life. But he made the 911 call. And the dispatcher kept telling him don't go outside," she said. "I feel he wanted to shoot them anyway."

Police said a grand jury will determine if what Horn did was illegal.

Meanwhile, he has expressed some regret about what occurred.

"The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased," Horn said in a statement to ABC News.
http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3880630

Activists denounce man's clearing in shootings
July 1, 2008 —

HOUSTON — A grand jury's decision to clear a suburban Houston homeowner for shooting to death two men he saw burglarizing his neighbor's home is not the end of the polarizing case, the fiancee of one of the two men said Tuesday.

"This is not over. It's not over by a longshot," said Stephanie Storey, the fiancee of Hernando Riascos Torres.

Storey said she was pondering her legal options, including filing a civil lawsuit.

Torres, 38, along with Diego Ortiz, 30, were fatally shot by Joe Horn, a retired grandfather, after he saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in the Houston suburb of Pasadena, carrying bags of the neighbor's possessions.

Horn's attorney has said his client shot the two men in November out of fear for his life when they came into his yard and threatened him.

But Storey, while not condoning what her fiancee and the other man did, called the shootings "premeditated murder" because Horn should have waited for police to handle the situation.

Horn, 62, called 911 and but ignored the dispatcher's repeated requests to stay inside, saying he was "gonna kill 'em." Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

Autopsy reports released Tuesday show the two men were shot in the back, arms and shoulders

Torres' cause of death was listed as coming from a shotgun wound of the torso and the area around the upper left arm and shoulder, while Ortiz's death came from a shotgun wound to the neck and torso.

"I'm very surprised that these two lives had no value, that someone can take the law into their own hands and shoot them down like animals and absolutely get away with it. I'm more than angry right now," Storey said.

Community activists, who denounced the grand jury's decision on Monday, said they planned to stage a demonstration outside the Harris County District Attorney's office next week.

Community activist Quannel X accused the district attorney's office and the justice system in Harris County of being racist and broken and needing to be fixed.

Torres and Ortiz were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Horn is white. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

"I believe that the racist mind-set that was there when Chuck Rosenthal was leading that office is still in existence in that office today," Quannel X said. "I believe that mind-set would allow a grand jury to be impaneled that is the racial makeup of really one race."

Quannel X said he suspected most of the grand jurors were white and called on the new district attorney, Kenneth Magidson, to release details about the racial makeup of the grand jury that cleared Horn.

Rosenthal, the former district attorney, resigned in February under the weight of a scandal involving the release of dozens of controversial e-mails, including racist ones, found on his office computer.

The city's black activists began to publicly question whether race played a role in several incidents in Rosenthal's career.

His assistant district attorneys were accused of finding creative ways to strike blacks from juries and using racist code words to discuss black jurors.

Donna Hawkins, Magidson's spokeswoman, said a court order issued by the judge who handled the grand jury prevents the release of their names or any other information about the panel.

Grand jury proceedings are secret and normally no information about panel members is made public, she said.

Hawkins also denied Quannel X's claims that race played any role in the grand jury's decision.

"I can absolutely assure you that racial bias did not color the proceedings in this case," she said. "We make every effort to present the law and evidence to the grand jury and it's their decision. Our victims are many colors. Our defendants are many colors. Our oath is to see that justice is done."

Magidson does not intend to present the case to another grand jury, which Quannel X requested on Tuesday.

"A fair assessment of the evidence was done by the grand jury," Hawkins said.

Quannel X said he also planned to lobby legislators to change the law that condoned Horn's actions.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5866764.html

AMERICAL RULES>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that shit rules. wish i could own a shot gun and kill robbers who tried to ROB me. PROPERTY RIGHTS.
 

kaz1

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They would of got the death sentence anyway since they did the crime in Texas.
 

scarybunny

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Did you see that other thing about the New York hospital, where a woman rolls off a chair and starts convulsing on the floor of an emergency room, and nobody does anything for an HOUR.

Security guards walk in and out, and eventually nurses come in and one of them kicks the woman to see if she's alive. And she's not.
 

Riet

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They were columbian illegal immigrant drug addicts.

He gave them a lawful order to stop, which was a gift he didn't have to offer. They were fucking stupid enough to ignore this and try to victimize him too, and they paid the price. Hopefully the suspects were buried here so I can go piss on their graves.
 

Serius

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scarybunny said:
Why not shoot them in the leg or something?
Because that would be stupid, for all you know they now pull out a gun from their belt and shoot you to death. If you ever need to fire a gun in self defence you should be aiming to kill.

I heard the tape pretty much right after it happened, These fucks were robbing his neighbor blind and he was just supposed to sit there and watch it happen? wrong. Next he goes outside and they come on to HIS FUCKING PROPERTY uh wrong move fucktards, from his perspective i would be thinking that these fucks now know i saw them stealing and they are coming to take me out, he warns them "move, your dead" [funny story, when the tape was first released everyone thought he said "BOOM YOUR DEAD!" which would be an awesome one liner] which he doesnt have to do, obviously they keep coming at him, so he shoots them down in self defence. Dont see a problem with this at all. If they had been running away and he chased after them and shot them in the back, thats another story, but even then its legal if they are on his property.

God texas has some awesome laws, i wish in Australia we had the right to defend ourselves and our property, instead of being legally obligated to just sit there and smile while you are getting robbed until the police get there [way too late to catch the criminals ofcourse]
 

jb_nc

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zimmerman8k said:
K let's say he has the right to vigilate justice. Fine.

But he better not complain when some amigos come to avenge their homies deaths and blow his defective redneck brains out.
Counterpoint: Killing Mexicans robbing your neighbour, maybe with weapons, in fear of your life is legal.

Amigos killing dude for killing their hombres is illegal.

Texas rules.
 
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katie tully

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Vanush is just scared coz if he ever goes to Texas, it wouldn't be unlikely that somebody would confuse him for an alien.
 

jb_nc

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katie tully said:
Would move to Texas but..

It's full of Texans and Mexicans.
u

can

kill

them!!!!!
 

jb_nc

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Let us, itt, morn for the dead illegal immigrant robbers who died valiantly robbing from some evil, evil white person.
 
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he shot them in the back, neck, arms and shoulders... lame...

I would have been all like "BOOM HEADSHOT AMIGO"; "BOOM HEADSHOT, DOUBLE KILL!!!"
 

Riet

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A High Way Man said:
yes. im sure a shotgun to the legs or lower torso wouldn't incapacitate them :rolleyes:

maybe the ending of it all is sum kind of cosmic justice, maybe these columbians were pretty bad guyz, but this guy Horn dude went out of his house that night with the intent to commit cold murder - twice. Methinks he was living out some killin' mexican fantasy

in fact, Horn had control over the situation (he told them "Move, and you're dead"). why the shit wasn't he charged with MANSLAUGHTER?!!!!??!?
You watch too many movies. When you get shot, you very rarely die instantly. Shooting someone in the leg is stupid.
 

Riet

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mythical chaos said:
he shot them in the back, neck, arms and shoulders... lame...

I would have been all like "BOOM HEADSHOT AMIGO"; "BOOM HEADSHOT, DOUBLE KILL!!!"
Yes because everyone is a fucking sniper. Holy shit. Unless you're a marksman (and even then, with a moving target) you are supposed to aim for the centre of mass for the greatest chance of a hit.
 

scarybunny

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Hearing the tape, those are some dumbshit robber types.

A TEXAN (!!) with a BIGFUCKINGGUN is saying that he's going to KILL YOU if you move, and you keep moving. And he's allowed to kill you, so he's not going to be in any trouble.

I don't particularly like the idea of killing people because they're stealing stuff, but it's not like they weren't warned.
 

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