Employment prospects - D average? (1 Viewer)

[pmtennis]

hey

when ppl say a Distinction avg is a must for getting jobs in top law firms, do you mean that a D average in you whole course (ie/ a double degree of comm units as well as law units) or a D average in your law units?

and, also are there ppl out there that have a HD average? i would doubt it and i would even struggle to see ppl with an average in the range of 5% below a HD average. your thoughts?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: D average - clearing up

when ppl say a Distinction avg is a must for getting jobs in top law firms, do you mean that a D average in you whole course (ie/ a double degree of comm units as well as law units) or a D average in your law units?

Well when people say at least a D average is necessary, they are talking about top-tier law firms - ie. Mallesons, Allens, Freehills, Clayton, Minter, Blakes.

Smaller law firms are not as fussy.

But to answer your question, generally it is the law component that is most important and it is a D average over your law subjects. (That is not to say that they do not look at your other degree marks at all. But there are a few large firms who don't even let you input your non-law marks -- possible Allens if I remember.)

and, also are there ppl out there that have a HD average? i would doubt it and i would even struggle to see ppl with an average in the range of 5% below a HD average. your thoughts?

It is very rare to have an HD average. There is only one person I know of who has an HD average and he has just won the UNSW law medal. (And is so good he is Chief Justice Gleeson's associate next year.) So don't worry about achieving that highly.

There are a block of people however, with a WAM of around 80-84. (Although for first interview selections the larger firms use GPA, not WAM.)

 

[trishan]

Re: D average - clearing up

Moonlight, you're heading into your fifth year. Do you mind if I ask what your WAM is over the four years of study you have completed?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: D average - clearing up

Moonlight, you're heading into your fifth year. Do you mind if I ask what your WAM is over the four years of study you have completed?

My Law WAM is 77.04, my Arts WAM is 77.88.

 

[pmtennis]

Re: D average - clearing up

A law WAM of 77.40, what percentile of your uni do u rkn that equates to? top 5%? top 10%?

and u mentioned top tier firms, what about ones like Tresscox, Philip Fox, Hunt and Hunt, Deacons etc etc? would they be comfortable with generally a low D average where as those top ones are mid to high D avg?

 

[Summer Rain]

Re: D average - clearing up

There is only one person I know of who has an HD average and he has just won the UNSW law medal. (And is so good he is Chief Justice Gleeson's associate next year.) So don't worry about achieving that highly

.


I would LOVE to get my hands on his notes, is he in the habit of sharing them with mere mortals such as myself

How high is his high distinction average?

Also, not that I am interested in working for one of the big law firms but are they looking for a low-end distinction or a high-end distinction average?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: D average - clearing up

I would LOVE to get my hands on his notes, is he in the habit of sharing them with mere mortals such as myself

Notes are highly overrated

How high is his high distinction average?

The guy has High Distinctions for every law subject except one. He also received the university medal for Arts, doing Honours in philosophy.

Also, not that I am interested in working for one of the big law firms but are they looking for a low-end distinction or a high-end distinction average?

I can't tell you that you need a WAM of exactly 76.57281 to get an interview. I don't know the exact methods and filters by which the firms process applicants. But you're looking at a D average to be competitive. You'd best speak to the firm if you want more information.

Other than that the only thing I can say is that it also depends on your other strengths. If you have nothing on your resume except marks, then obviously your marks better be good. If you have done every extra-curricular law activity under the sun and have legal work experience at seven different jobs then (to a limited extent) you can get away with lower marks.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: D average - clearing up

A law WAM of 77.40, what percentile of your uni do u rkn that equates to? top 5%? top 10%?

Each university is different. At UNSW 80+ WAMs constitute roughly the top 10%.

and u mentioned top tier firms, what about ones like Tresscox, Philip Fox, Hunt and Hunt, Deacons etc etc? would they be comfortable with generally a low D average where as those top ones are mid to high D avg?

I think a high Credit average may be enough, depending on your other strengths. It all depends.

I must confess, I didn't apply to anyone but the top six so I don't profess to have too much experience with other firms.

 

[Summer Rain]

Re: D average - clearing up

Thanks again Moonlight for all your info.

Why do you think notes are highly overrated?

Also, this guy sounds like a genius, was most of HD's b/w 90-100%. I think he will be the next chief justice of the HC!

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: D average - clearing up

Why do you think notes are highly overrated?

I should clarify what I meant: other people's notes are highly overrated

 

[goan_crazy]

Sorry to ask but can you please explain to me what "WAM" actually is?
thankyou.

 

[Summer Rain]

Re: D average - clearing up

I should clarify what I meant: other people's notes are highly overrated

Yeah, one lecturer told me that using other peoples notes is not a good idea because it is the process of writing notes which prepare/learn your material for exams. She said that reading other peoples notes is ok to see how other people organise their notes but this should not be a subsitute for writing your own exam notes. From my personal experience, though, I have really written notes for one subject and the rest of the time I have relied on on other peoples notes and have done o.k that is why I am reluctant to start writing my own now.

 

[Summer Rain]

Your WAM is the score that you receive out of 100 and is the average of all your final marks for each subject you have completed to date.

 

[UWS-Uni-Student]

Re: D average - clearing up

My Law WAM is 77.04, my Arts WAM is 77.88.

What is a WAM?

 

[jemsta]

Re: D average - clearing up

read the above post

 

[Frigid]

Re: D average - clearing up

and u mentioned top tier firms, what about ones like Tresscox, Philip Fox, Hunt and Hunt, Deacons etc etc?

i wouldn't say TC/H&H are top-tier firms. Phil-Fox maybe. Deacons so-so. basically, the 'true' top tier would be Malles, Freehills, Allens, Cl'Utz, BDW and Minters (not necessarily in that order).

PLC Which Lawyer? - Australian rankingshttp://whichlawyer.practicallaw.com/which/firmRecommendationsByJurisdiction.do?jurisdictionId=:22164

Legal 500 - Australian Overviewhttp://www.legal500.com/index.php?o...0&Itemid=334#legal500_html/as500/edit/as1.htm

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: D average - clearing up

i wouldn't say TC/H&H are top-tier firms. Phil-Fox maybe. Deacons so-so. basically, the 'true' top tier would be Malles, Freehills, Allens, Cl'Utz, BDW and Minters (not necessarily in that order).

PLC Which Lawyer? - Australian rankingshttp://whichlawyer.practicallaw.com/which/firmRecommendationsByJurisdiction.do?jurisdictionId=:22164

Legal 500 - Australian Overviewhttp://www.legal500.com/index.php?o...0&Itemid=334#legal500_html/as500/edit/as1.htm

I don't think he was saying that those were top tier firms

He was saying, "You mentioned top tier firms, what about [mid-tier firms such as] Tresscox, Philip Fox, Hunt and Hunt, Deacons etc etc".

 

[Marmalade.]

Re: D average - clearing up

and u mentioned top tier firms, what about ones like Tresscox, Philip Fox, Hunt and Hunt, Deacons etc etc? would they be comfortable with generally a low D average where as those top ones are mid to high D avg?

What does everyone think about this?
I don't think that smaller firms require D averages, but what is the lowest they would accept?