Fraser again... (1 Viewer)

[Tabris]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18704554%5E12332,00.html


No apology from 'racist' professor

April 04, 2006
A UNIVERSITY academic who sparked a racial furore by claiming a link between African refugees and high crime rates says he will not apologise to the Sudanese community over it, defying the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission (HREOC).

Professor Andrew Fraser was suspended from teaching at Macquarie University in Sydney in July last year after the comments.

Sudanese Darfurian Union secretary Safi Hareer complained to HREOC that Prof

Fraser breached the Racial Discrimination Act in a letter published in the Parramatta Sun newspaper.

The letter said experience showed that an expanding black population was a "sure-fire recipe" for increased crime and violence.

In a landmark ruling that raises fresh questions about the limits to which academics can engage in public debate, HREOC chairman John von Doussa found Prof Fraser's comments were unlawful, The Australian newspaper reported today.

Mr von Doussa asked Prof Fraser to respond to Mr Hareer's demand for an apology to the Sudanese community.

But the academic has refused, telling The Australian he has a right to freedom of speech.

"Even those who disagree with me should be appalled at this attack on the freedom of academic debate," Prof Fraser said

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18715446-12332,00.html

MACQUARIE University has dropped an edict requiring associate professor of law Andrew Fraser to divorce his controversial views on race from his academic post.
The university has allowed Professor Fraser to use his academic time at taxpayers' expense to write a book that calls for the forced repatriation of foreign-born Muslims and the restoration of the White Australia policy.

Professor Fraser has also travelled to the US to share a conference platform with prominent neo-Nazis and other right-wing extremists.

He was suspended from teaching last year by the university's then vice-chancellor, Di Yerbury, over his claim that Africans had low IQs and high testosterone levels, which made them a crime risk.

Professor Yerbury declared at the time that Professor Fraser's continued tenure depended on his ensuring he did not identify his university position with his views on race.

Professor Fraser used university letterheads in recent correspondence with the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission. He has rejected a request by HREOC chairman John von Doussa that he apologise to the Sudanese community over his claim that an expanding black population was a recipe for violence.

 

[BronwynKate]

Why, why, why?

He's perfectly entitled to write a book.

But I find the very idea distasteful.

I already find it distasteful that vulnerable young people are exposed to his ideas at a time when their brains are still malleable as are their directions in life.

He's an old man and he can think what he thinks. That's all right for him. But when he acts on what he thinks, and writing books is a political and moral act (I should know!), he has a responsibility, doesn't he?

Those of you who have been taught by Fraser, what do you think of him?

 

[MaryJane]

^^ Apparently he is fantastic. Its a shame he's gone, I would have preferred doing public law now after struggling through 7 weeks of boring const

I saw a tiny little mention of this in SMH, on the 10th page (just before the world news) on the side. It was about 5 cm long

 

[xeuyrawp]

^^ Apparently he is fantastic.

I've heard a lot of different stuff about his classes, although most people agree that he was a good lecturer.

A lot of people also said that he challenged all ideologies, even his own, but I have no first-hand experience of it.

Anyway, the whole thing's been blown out of proportion. He's a racist, move on.

 

[BronwynKate]

What about people who were personally hurt, or whose careers were professionally hurt by Fraser and his views?

How are they going to move on?

 

[xeuyrawp]

What about people who were personally hurt, or whose careers were professionally hurt by Fraser and his views?

How are they going to move on?

Oh dear.

What about Kaiser's view of the Naqada conquest, when Christiana Kohler of the ancient history department smashed his theory, which he'd actually spent his entire life building?

Frankly, I have no time for anyone that is 'personally hurt' by any form of discrimination, least of all the academic kind. It would be like me crying about how I was once called 'faggot' at school, rather than getting even and proving that I was better than them.

The fact is that the closest the community came to a mature response was the anti-racism forum. Unfortunately, and, predictably, all these half-brained hippies filled the place and constantly yelled out things like 'go back to America, you racist cunt', when (again, unfortunately) he actually came from Canada. But that's beside the point.

The point is that he made a silly claim backed up by silly academic sources. If people didn't cry about how he's just a cunt and a racist and actually responded to his claims, maybe the situation would have been resolved like any other dispute.

But of course, when Kohler talks about the Naqada expansion, she's an academic, but when Fraser talks about ethnicity, he's a racist. The fact that everyone is so overly PC about the whole situation makes it worse.

Personally, the treatment of the situation was on par with the White policy of Protectionism -- let's just protect the Aborigines because they can't protect themselves. Really, the best anyone could do was to stand up and quote Dickens. If people feel they need to stand up for other people, maybe they should look inward to their own patronising ways.

If he was in the wrong, he would have been shown to be in the wrong rather than being yelled at.

Kudos to Simon Rice for doing a good job on his speech and pointing out that the brow-beating of students and academics was counter-constructive.

Could you also give me an example of who was 'professionally hurt'? I mean, isn't the point of academia (and the world, especially the professional world) that it's a survival of the fittest, not the survival of an opportunity board commitee?

Meh, I really don't care. *waits to be flamed*

 

[BronwynKate]

I don't know about this.

This sounds like the difference between the justice and the care ethic. And the vast difference in experience between you and me. (Kohlberg versus Gilligan if you didn't know ... and Gilligan didn't cite half her sources though she could and should have done so).

I care about everybody who has been hurt by discrimination, no matter how small.

I agree that a purely emotional response to these matters is counter-productive to any goals we may want to achieve.

Living well is not always the best revenge.

Yes, it was an academic matter. We all of us make mistakes on sources. And some of us do it to deceive and hurt people. Some of us do it to get ahead.

I just think that people's hurt should be acknowledged, that's all.

If that makes me a half-brained hippie -

well -

I stood my ground as best I could.

With respect ...

And thank you for recognising patronisation as an insidious form of discrimination. I must congraulate you on your perception and wisdom.

 

[BronwynKate]

Who was professionally hurt and who can claim to be so?

Um, any student who would have done a MA or PhD thesis with Fraser as their supervisor?

Any of the other people on the academic board?

I can't mention names because I'm too far from the situation.

And I had no ... intention ... whatsoever ... of flaming you or your opinions. Or of brown-nosing which is naturally the other extreme.

I'm trying to keep this in the realm of logic and decency.

I still think there are fundamental differences.

The thing is, while Rome burns, people are getting hurt. Innocent people who never did anything wrong. Who had the misfortune to be associated with ...

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: Who was professionally hurt and who can claim to be so?

Um, any student who would have done a MA or PhD thesis with Fraser as their supervisor?

His views are known. It would be like me chosing to do a pro-Kaiserian thesis under Kohler.

Anyway, I don't really care. I'm pro hard-lined nationalism, so obviously I'd argue for Fraser's views. Also, I don't understand what you're saying with your Klingon logic about revenge. I'm not saying that we shouldn't acknowledge if something is hurtful, I'm saying that I don't care if someone says what I think and I don't think it's relevant whether he did something hurtfull if he's forwarding his ideas.

If his ideas were hurtful, it would obviously be based on two situations:
1. He was right and people agree with him,
2. He was wrong and people are stupid.

The old position of power issue should not be a problem at university. May I ask where and when you draw the line for students not being maliable? Is it third year, or do we have to keep up the PC bullshit into honours? The crap that we were spoon-fed in school is, imo, more dangerous than anything that Fraser could say.

On another note, this business of protecting other people is such bullshit. Clearly the third-world people that Fraser was attacking should be able to stand up for themselves.

The real issue was that he put his position at Macquaire on the article, which he clearly shouldn't have done.

 

[*hopeful*]

Re: Who was professionally hurt and who can claim to be so?

racist prick who needs 2 get his stereotype-filled head out his ass

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: Who was professionally hurt and who can claim to be so?

racist prick who needs 2 get his stereotype-filled head out his ass

May I ask if you even read what he said, or did you just jump to the conclusion that he was a mindless racist?

Considering you're too lazy to type two more letters (2 -> too), I assume that you just jumped on the bandwagon without looking to where it was going.

 

[AsyLum]

Tom Hillard for the win!

 

[*hopeful*]

Re: Who was professionally hurt and who can claim to be so?

May I ask if you even read what he said, or did you just jump to the conclusion that he was a mindless racist?

Considering you're too lazy to type two more letters (2 -> too), I assume that you just jumped on the bandwagon without looking to where it was going.

well guess wat, u assumed wrong

oh so sorry 4 not typing full words, didnt realise i wuz handin in an essay 2 b analysed

 

[xeuyrawp]

Re: Who was professionally hurt and who can claim to be so?

oh so sorry 4 not typing full words, didnt realise i wuz handin in an essay 2 b analysed

That's ok. Try better next time.

 

[BronwynKate]

It's okay. I thought you might be typing before you're thinking, which is typical in situations like this. The difference is that I usually type in full sentences and words, which hides the fact I'm not thinking a lot of the time, or at least not with my brain!

About students being malleable: They're subject to all sorts of influences. You can still get manipulated when you're an adult, as an American Christian girl of my acquaintance is finding out to her cost. She has just lost her illusion that things which happen in primary school don't affect adult relationships or something along those lines. It's all to do with a girl moving into her house. She's Asian by the way, but this girl is not racist. In fact she really loves all things to do with Asia, especially Japan and Japanese culture. The girl is Taiwanese by the way. She is feeling really powerless and hopeless with the manipulation which has gone on. She is beginning to see a pattern, as a student studying under Fraser (and there are people who might study under him but not really know his views in depth!) might in his views and behaviour.

I would have judged people on their behaviour, not their views. And certainly academically. I don't know whether there's a set age or period in somebody's university career when they can be less malleable but I would put it tentatively between third year and honours. Of course there are quite a few professional students.

Don't worry too much. It's just that one of the participants in this thread is a history teacher at Macquarie University and he wants everyone to write as well as they possibly can so that their arguments and opinions may shine. Just be sure that not all that glitters is gold!

 

[xeuyrawp]

It's okay. I thought you might be typing before you're thinking, which is typical in situations like this. The difference is that I usually type in full sentences and words, which hides the fact I'm not thinking a lot of the time, or at least not with my brain!

About students being malleable: They're subject to all sorts of influences. You can still get manipulated when you're an adult, as an American Christian girl of my acquaintance is finding out to her cost. She has just lost her illusion that things which happen in primary school don't affect adult relationships or something along those lines. It's all to do with a girl moving into her house. She's Asian by the way, but this girl is not racist. In fact she really loves all things to do with Asia, especially Japan and Japanese culture. The girl is Taiwanese by the way. She is feeling really powerless and hopeless with the manipulation which has gone on. She is beginning to see a pattern, as a student studying under Fraser (and there are people who might study under him but not really know his views in depth!) might in his views and behaviour.

I would have judged people on their behaviour, not their views. And certainly academically. I don't know whether there's a set age or period in somebody's university career when they can be less malleable but I would put it tentatively between third year and honours. Of course there are quite a few professional students.

Don't worry too much. It's just that one of the participants in this thread is a history teacher at Macquarie University and he wants everyone to write as well as they possibly can so that their arguments and opinions may shine. Just be sure that not all that glitters is gold!

Your point about your adult friend is valid, but I'd still forward that students at uni should know to take all opinions with a grain of salt. Hmmm, maybe it's up to the lecturers/tutors to say 'well, this is my opinion' and show conflicting opinions, then?

It's also easier if you refer to people by their username And I'm not a history teacher at the uni, I teach English to a couple of young Japanese kids.

 

[BronwynKate]

Oh dear!

What a slip.

You teach English to some Japanese kids.

I'll remember that.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Oh dear!

What a slip.

You teach English to some Japanese kids.

I'll remember that.

Rather than teaching history to Ancient Egyptian kids

 

[clairegirl]

right... fraser....


*insert intellectual argument here*


the end

 

[AsyLum]

Haha, yeah thats basically my stance rofl