Happy Birthday Israel! (2 Viewers)

[JaredR]

As the “robust democracy” of Israel quickly approaches her 60th Birthday, I wish her congratulations and call for any intelligent discourse of those open to new ideas and not blinded by anti-Semitism or hatred to the Jewish State.

P.S. Sorry if you’re over the whole Israel thing, but I just can’t help to see people wrongly informed!

130 years ago, when much of Ottoman Palestine was barren marshland, the first Zionist pioneers settled. Living alongside their Arab neighbours, they worked together building roads and infrastructure. At the same time, the Jewish National Fund bought land of absentee landowners, most living in Lebanon, and used it for kibbutz agriculture and the settlement of towns and cities, such as Tel Aviv (built amongst sand dunes) and Rishon L’Zion.

With the approval of the UN Partition Plan in 1947 and the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, the State was established out of the ashes of the Holocaust ending the British Mandate.

Immediately following, Israel was attacked by her Arab neighbours, but was successful in fending them off with crucial territorial gains. Unfortunately, lessons weren’t learnt and wars were raged against Israel again in 1956, 1967 and 1973. Israel has made land concessions for peace with both Jordan and Egypt.

Modern-day Israel is a vibrant democracy and a land of diversity. It boasts a flourishing technological sector and is the world leader in irrigation and desalination technologies. Intel computer chips are developed in Israel.

Israel has a population of 6.8 million, and holds the highest ratio of university degrees per head in the world. She produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation – 109 per 10,000 people. Israeli scientists developed the first ingestible video camera as well as the first fully-computerised, non-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer. Israel has the highest percentage of home computers per capita and she leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000 as opposed to 85 in the US, 70 in Japan and 60 in Germany.

Israel has provided aid to numerous countries including Albania; Angola; Argentina; Armenia; Azerbaijan; Belarus; Benin; Bolivia; Bosnia & Herzegovina; Bourkina-Fasso; Brazil; Bulgaria; Gurundi; Cambodia; Cameroon; Chad; Chile; China; Columbia; Congo; Costa Rica; Cote d'Ivoire; Cyprus; Czech Republic; Democratic Republic of Congo; Dominican Republic; Ecuador; Egypt; El Salvador; Eritrea; Estonia; Ethiopia; Fiji; Gambia; Georgia; Ghana; Greece; Guatemala; Guinea; Guinea-Bissau; Guyana; Haiti; Honduras; Hungary; India; Indonesia; Jamaica; Jordan; Kazakhstan; Kenya; Kyrgystan; Laos; Latvia; Leshotho; Liberia; Lithuania; Macedonia; Madagascar; Malawi; Malta; Mauritania; Mauritius; Mexico; Micronesia; Moldova; Mongolia; Morocco; Myanmar; Namibia; Nepal; Nicaragua; Nigreia; Palestinian Authority; Panama; Papua New Guinea; Paraguay; Peru; Philippines; Poland; Romania; Russia; Rwanda; Senegal; Seychelles Islands; Singapore; Slovakia; Somalia; South Africa; South Korea; Sri Lanka; Swaziland; Tadjikistan; Tanzania; Thailand; Togo; Tonga; Tunisia; Turkey; Turkmenistan; Uganda; Ukraine; United States; Uruguay; Uzbekistan; Venezuela; Vietnam; Yugosloslavia; Zaire; Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Israel has an openly gay community, and was one of the first countries to have a female leader.

Israel’s actions are comparative to the threat they face. The United States and Britain, two of the world’s most respected democracies, responded to Hitlerism with indiscriminate bombing of cities and civilian population centres. The US later dropped atomic bombs on Japanese cities in order to spare the lives of its own soldiers in an invasion. The Arab countries that surround Israel – Jordan and Egypt in particular had Palestinian intifadas of their own and dealt with them with gigantic massacres that included mowing down thousands of Palestinians with tanks and machine guns. Israel, in many respects has placed human decency ahead of her own security even after the words of Martin Luther-King Jr. “Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.” – March 25, 1968.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Let us pray that Mamdouh Ahmaedadinjah (whatever) brings this awful life of this state to a close soon enough.

 

[JaredR]

A nuclear strike will kill not just the Israeli Jews, but Israeli Arabs, and equally the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank. The nuclear fallout could spread as far as Europe, with neighbouring Arab States likely to be affected.

Is this what you want? Are you so careless when it comes to your fellow man? An attack against Israel is a blatant and direct attack against the West, and if you think Ahmedinijad will stop with Israel you're sorely mistaken.

 

[bigneh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_Px5cJIyI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUI_Ft3ajME&feature=related


Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tAe3cbrT-w&feature=related
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iku88saobmQ&feature=related
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esc6199w6iw&feature=related
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t38NTvl2Gnw&feature=related
Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BGUv4KNbAs&feature=related


HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISRAEL!

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

Where is the article in the OP from?

 

[JaredR]

In response to Video #1:

Bigneh posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA

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1) Findley wrote a book on a similar issue in which The New York Times described as "an angry, one-sided book that seems often to be little more than a stringing together of stray incidents." (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9901EFDE1738F937A25754C0A963948260) Findley similarily linked the September 11 attacks with America's support of Israel and accuses the Israeli lobby for his own defeat in Congress.

2) The apparent "defenseless" people the video speaks of are, on a daily basis, smuggling weapons into the Gaza Strip from tunnels connecting Gaza and Egypt. These weapons are then used against innocent Israelis going about their daily business in their soverign and internationally recognised State.

3) The footage of men in uniforms beating a civillian: there is no distinctive insignia to link these soldiers with the Israel Defense Forces.

4) Linking the methods and practises of Israel or Israelis to Nazis or Nazi-Germany is anti-Semitic. No other nation, when committing questionable human rights violations is given this analogy.

5) The image of a man exposing his chest is in no way a violation of human rights, it suggests to the viewer that Israel has an enemy that looks like any other person on the streets. However that this person, is likely to be strapped with a bomb... a bomb often filled with nails to inflict maximum carnage.

6) 15 year olds are not exempt from Israeli questioning and actions, as there have been suicide bombings and attacks committed by girls and boys younger than this age.

7) There is no Israeli response to this claim of torture. This is bias. In fact on September 6, 1999, the Israeli Supreme Court decided that not only is torture absolutely prohibited but even the types of physical pressure currently being used in the US - sleep deprivation, forced uncomfortable positions, loud music, shaking, hoods over the head, are prohibited by Israeli law.

This is in contrast to Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines and other Muslim countries, where torture is common and approved at the highest levels of government.

 

[JaredR]

In response to video # 2:

Bigneh posted: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_Px5cJIyI&feature=related

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Every Religion has it's extremists. Much of the settler movement is promoted and endorsed by the Ultra-Right Israeli Jews. This is not an accurate portrayal of Israeli opinion as much more of Israel is secular and much more resides within Israel Proper as recognised by the United Nations.

Such actions as portrayed by this Jewish woman are in violation of the Torah she is commanded to follow.

In response to video # 3:

Bigneh posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUI_Ft3ajME&feature=related

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Israel is the only nation in the world whose judiciary enforces the rule of law against its military even during wartime. I am most certain that the perpertrators of this haneous act were brought to justice.

I could just as easily post a video of the Cronulla Riots. Is this a fair justification on Australia's attitude towards minority groups especially those of Arabic/Islamic descent? No. The same can be said for this video.

 

[boris]

As an Australian living in Australia, I really can't help but not care about Israel's birthday?

 

[bigneh]

JaredR you discredit Findley yet all he is saying is that America is heavily bias towards Israel, you cant possibly deny that.


Yer im sure all those children being shot by snipers and having their houses destroyed by bulldozers are militants.

Being a 'soverign and internationally recognised State' does not give Israel any positive connotation by the way.

And the Nazi analogy, no other nations are given this analogy because they are not jewish. obviously.

Of course there is no Israeli response, denial is the best tool for human rights abuse claims. And so what if it is legislated against, you honestly think they care what the supreme court said in 1999, who is going to enforce it? the soldiers who commit it?

 

[JaredR]

It's better to say that America is a strong supporter of Israel, rather than bias to Israel.

As far as I'm aware, if children are victims to Israel, it is as a result of tactical attacks by either artilery or Air strikes. Children are not snipered by Israelis. Children are the unfortunate victims as their parents, elder brothers, uncles etc. commit terrorist attrocities against Israel and return to their homes and families, only to be struck by Israeli Air strikes and fire. The only time a child is placed in the scope of an Israeli rifle is when he or she is suspected of carrying a weapon or explosive device. And even still is only killed if that suspicion becomes a known reality.

Unlike Palestinian terrorists, Israel does not indiscriminately kill men, women and children.

I don't see how being a soverign and internationally recognised state gives any negative connotation either?

Comparing Jews to Nazis is an insult to history and the memory of the millions of Jews and Non-Jews who died at the hand of the vicious war.

You don't know that none was given with regards to that video. Much the same as Americand and Australian soldiers, there is a chain of command, a military police unit, a political backing, and an angry public if there are human rights violations committed. So of course, justice will be brought to perpetrators of human rights violations.

 

[Trampoline Man]

Yes, let's celebrate the 60th birthday of the Zionist invasion of

The Judeo-Fascist pseudo-democracy of Israel will get its just rewards for the unprovoked persecution of the defenseless Arabs of the surrounding territories.

4) Linking the methods and practises of Israel or Israelis to Nazis or Nazi-Germany is anti-Semitic. No other nation, when committing questionable human rights violations is given this analogy.

The first part of my post is a troll, but I take exception to this statement. Nation such as America, China, Russia, Arab states, Iran etc. all get compared to Nazi Germany for their human rights abuses.

However, this comparison is perhaps more important in Israel's case because of all the nations of the world, you would think as the ones who suffered the most, Israel would have learnt the most from the Nazi atrocities. Evidently not.

And rather than just crying anti-semitism every time a particularly strong criticism comes along, how about contesting the actual statement?

 

[bigneh]

It's better to say that America is a strong supporter of Israel, rather than bias to Israel.

Do you know what bias means?

So because childrens parents may be terrorists its acceptable to shoot rockets at them? You cannot treat these borders as war zones, this conflict is on-going, and shooting willy nilly at these heavily populated areas is unjust.

Unlike Palestinian terrorists, Israel does not indiscriminately kill men, women and children.

YES THEY DO, those shells being fired kill indiscriminately.. How can they not.. That little girl was shot in the head when she was at her table at school, was she suspected of terrorist activity?

Just because the Jews have had a rough history does not give them the right not to be scrutinized. The fact is that the Nazi regime conducted similar activity to that of what Israel is doing now. And it points out the Irony in this.

And im sure their will be an up roar in Israel over these atrocities.

And the whole terror excuse is bullshit, yer there are terrorists, but why the fuck would they be walking around their schools and homes with explosives, hundreds of meters from any Israeli checkpoint or tower.

 

[JaredR]

These defenceless Arabs, along with their Arab brethren have consecutively attacked, and been defeated by Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1970, 1973 and 1982 not to mention the 2 non-conventional wars: The Intifadas of 1987-1993 and 2000-2007.

They're only defenceless because they have attempted to destroy the State of Israel too many times. And even still they're not defenceless, as time and time again the United Nations protects their rights and calls upon Israel to unequivocally jeopordise her own security.

 

[you fraudin?]

Why do you persist to defend? People kill people.

IT'S WHAT THY ALMIGHTY LAWD WANTS.

Our creator(sic) is one malevolent motherfucker.

 

[JaredR]

And the whole terror excuse is bullshit, yer there are terrorists, but why the fuck would they be walking around their schools and homes with explosives, hundreds of meters from any Israeli checkpoint or tower.

Four reasons:

1) Do you think they're going to strap on the explosives in front of the Israeli soldiers at the border/checkpoint.

2) Do you think that terrorist attacks are carried out by one person rather than a collaborative effort?

3) When rockets are fired into Israel, the perpertrators often have a chance to flee the immediate vicinity seeking refuge in built up regions. They are then tracked by Israel and attacked.

4) On the 9th April, 4 Palestinian terrorists raided the Nahal Oz fuel depot on the Israeli side of the border. Two Israeli truck drivers were shot dead and two of the terrorists were killed by the IDF. The 4 terrorists cut the fence and passed into the Israeli side two then climbed over the 2.5m wall surrounding the depot and the other 2 waited near the border fence poised to fire RPG rockets at soldiers if they arrived.

During the attack, mortar shells were fired at the depot to cover the attackers. When the IDF arrived, the terrorists fled toward the Palestinian side of the fence. Two were killed, one by tank fire and the other shot dead. The other two escaped. Later in the day the Air Force fired at a car carrying militants involved in the raid.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

A nuclear strike will kill not just the Israeli Jews, but Israeli Arabs, and equally the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank. The nuclear fallout could spread as far as Europe, with neighbouring Arab States likely to be affected.

Is this what you want? Are you so careless when it comes to your fellow man? An attack against Israel is a blatant and direct attack against the West, and if you think Ahmedinijad will stop with Israel you're sorely mistaken.

A few well aimed nuclear missiles could take out the majority of the Israeli population, leaving only sparse remnants elsewhere. Only problem would be Jerusalem, which I imagine would be left relatively untouched because as you say, it's kinda divided in half and whatever the hell else. The combined armies of, well, every Arab state could then come in and take over the reminaing populations.

Then Israel would be gone.

Not that I want that. But I mean, you know, it's interesting to talk about this stuff.

<_<
>_>
<_<

 

[bigneh]

I think Israel's pretty great.

Oh ok cool.

JaredR, those children are not defenceless? Where they around in the 40's?

There is no excuse for what is currently happening. The victims are innocents.

 

[JaredR]

The victims are on both sides of the fence: peace is trying to be reached between Israel and moderate Palestinian Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah. Unfortunately Hamas-controlled Gaza fails to recognise the State of Israel and so any hope at peace with Palestine in entirity is unlikely.

 

[bigneh]

Later in the day the Air Force fired at a car carrying militants involved in the raid.

Along with 20 or so civilians.

The people getting shot are not people with explosives, they are not going to walk hudnreds of meters out in the open with explosives to the towers, get real.

Collaborative effort? Your an idiot, what the children are all in on it?

You get all defensive and sensitive when someone mentions nazis then you blame the children for their parents acts.

Also where is the reply to the 5 part video?

 

[JaredR]

Don't call me an idiot, I've been nothing but fair and have bared with your missunderstandings.

There is no response to part 5 as I'm not wasting my bandwidth to watch all of that.

No, 20 civillians were not killed, 2 people were killed, two adult males.

The children are a tragic loss, but not at Israel's fault. If the terrorists who committed and aided in the commital of these acts did not fire rockets from built-up areas, or flee home to their families, their families wouldn't become victims to terrorism.

You need to understand that terrorism works to the Palestinian favour in two ways:

1) They damage Israeli property, injure and kill Israeli lives.
2) Israeli responses are seen internationally as harsh and innapropriate, as you yourself seem to think.

The terrorists have unfortuantely won you over, and if you can't understand the simple and known fact that after they fire rockets or sniper Israelis, they return home, then you're just ignorant. Where else will they go if they're fortunate, or rather unfortunate enough to get away?

That's it for tonight - good night!