Law Teaching Style (1 Viewer)

[magic]

HI,

I am selecting a law degree for next year. Are most classes a lecture + tutorial
Are lecturer notes given in class or available for download online or do you need to make your own notes?

What do you like most about doing law at UWS in terms of the course and teaching?

Thank you

 

[Demandred]

Teaching style for Law is suppose to be in small class group environments, there is usually a 2x2 hour blocks, it should go somewhere like this...

Professor: "You, what was the Engineer's case all about...?"
Student 1: "Sir/m'am, I think that..."
*Professor goes to the next guy*
Processor: "how about you>? what do you think of what that person said?"
Student 2: "I don't know, care to enlighten me?"
Student 3: " Oh I know!" *goes on for 5 minutes*
Professor: "HD stuff right there... to recap with JA was saying... *goes on for 20 minutes*

/repeat for the next 2 hours.

Of course, that's all normative stuff/wishful thinking right there, you might find it in some of the classes.

Reality is a lot worse, 1st year classes tends to be packed tightly, with some in excess of 50-60 students. So not everyone gets to have a say. But then again, chances of you gettting caught not doing your readings/homework is lower <faux pas!>

2nd year classes tends to be better, classes are genearlly a lot smaller, usually around 20-30 students in my property law class. Teachers are top notch, many, you'll find, have taught at other unis, and are willing to lend a hand, just watch out of the students. UAI for law is 85, which means the quality of the candidature is a lot lower than it should be.

Some law units offer notes on webct, some don't, so that means you have to dicpher commonlawthian (language of Judges) by yourself, which is quit daunting for some beginners -> 200 word sentances with 10+ commas, some sentances lasting 1/3 of the page.

Even you do get the notes, its highly recommended you do the summarsing/case notes yourself, its a skill you must need to be a lawyer.

And it goes without saying... generally, UWS should be the last of your law preferences, if you get into Sydney/UTS/UNSW or even Macq, go for it. Of course, that this is just my opinion.

 

[Angel45]

I am doing Law/Communications and I thouroughly enjoy law!!

I like the seminar set up (at parra that's 2 lots of 2hr 'seminars') because comparing it to my communications lectures, it's so much easier to learn and listen....much more engagement and sometimes the lecturers will know ur name which is a nice touch. There's more ppl in the seminars than in a tute, but then on the flip side there's less than in a lecture...and I neva do much in my communication tutes so I like it!

The teaching styles will vary - the lecturer I have atm tends to just 'lecture' the whole time (u can ask questions in between of course) but others ask questions or like in first yr we did a few little group questions in class.

I haven't had a subject yet w/ the lecture notes on webct coz they prolly don't stick to the same 'lecture' every time they teach the class...tends to go w/ the flow, but they have what's called 'seminar guides' which provides notes in varying degrees - they might summarise the reading and the law, point out things to look for, give u practice questions and so forth.

I've always found the lecturers I've had approachable, friendly, they know their stuff and they're good teachers...and the students r gr8! It's a good atmosphere -every1 is willing to help each other. Sometimes ppl. r a bit talkative in class though, but I spose that's the same everywhere and I don't know that that is related to the lower UAI.

 

[Jonathan A]

I might have some different opinions but since I am working in the legal industry and have spoken to many students from different unis and previously did the Diploma in Law Course, I might be able to give somewhat of a good insight.

UWS is a fantastic university. It has very experienced lecturers and good facilities. As time goes on, these are continually improving. If you enrol next year, you will be in line for the move to Parramatta which coincides with the new Justice Precinct in the Parramatta CBD (the Supreme Court will be opening in Parramatta and UWS will probably have some facilities in the CBD area).

The course fits perfectly within what is required of you to practice as a Lawyer in Australia and the Uni offers Practical Legal Training (very few unis offer this). Our programme also incorporates Practical components such as mooting.

E.g.:
Criminal Law - you do a bail application generally
Property Law - you do a property dispute
Constitutional Law - you do a 'High Court' application
Administrative Law - you do a Letter-writing exercise to a client and client interview

That is just the beginning. It means our university tends to do very well at competitions.

Next year will be an exciting year for students. Certainly not to be missed. We are putting up a bid to host a major event next year.

As for preferences and the university, etc... I have spoken to many people about this. Putting Mac or USyd first is up to you. An employer may prefer you if you graduate from a "sandstone" uni, however as time goes on, UWS graduates are breaking barriers more and more. We have many people on the bar (some of the youngest barristers), many people working for top-tier firms and some overseas.

I tell students, you are kidding yourselves if you think your university's reputation is going to save you. My employer didn't care about which university I attended. Within years of practice, many employers will not care - your reputation will count most. With a practical programme, your reputation will be quite good when you enter legal practice. Many of our students hold down jobs with firms.

As Demandred said, some students are awfully lazy due to the lower UAI cuto-ff. Ignore these students and get on with your career. The LSA is a very busy organisation (Law Student Association) and we have many initiatives for students wanting to succeed and stand out. Those who don't care, simply will have a harder time, regardless of which uni you graduate from. Experience counts!

Good luck.

 

[Jonathan A]

examples of success stores:

One of my lecturers graduated from UWS and worked as a litigator for Mallesons and then Gilbert+Tobin. Another graduate worked in the Office of the CEO of the Commonwealth Bank and now is a barrister. Another worked for the Insolvency Service in England and now is a barrister. A graduate from last year has established a consultancy company.

Note also that Western Sydney campuses are in the centre of Sydney (Parramatta has as many kms West as to the East) and so the future is west. Many Many employment oppurtunities and because many firms in the west are community orientated, they do like our graduates. We are also talking big firms.

 

[magic]

Thank you for your replies. It seems like UWS is quite good with its practical activities. I will be choosing other unis ahead of UWS, but UWS is the one I'll likely get into.

To Jonathan A:
Did you complete the DipLaw (LPAB) before entering UWS or did you transfer in like within a year, and did you get many exemptions.

More replies from other UWS students welcome.

 

[Jonathan A]

I transferred within the year. There were no exemptions. The LPAB will not grant many exemptions and universities will also not grant many exemptions for the LPAB. Universities are very academically focused and the LPAB course is more orientated toward legal practice.

 

[LaraB]

The Law part of teh course is pretty well the same as a lot of unis... eg our course is pretty much parallel to UNSW...

Classes are in seminars and you're expected to do the work yourself - you aren't spoon fed.

As far as types of assessments etc - that's not really any different from otehr unis - pretty much all unis have practical assessments for law so that's no big deal.

It's good because you have a big variety of academics and students given there's many more mature aged/post grad students and a academics have generally taught at UWS and another uni and have industry experience, many are currently also practicing professionals.

I guess the only way you can really tell if you'd like the classes is to sit in on one because every uni will tell you that their classes are interactive and participatory and aren't spoon fed blah blah blah so it's pretty redundant us telling you this

From copmaring to friend's experiences though, the biggest advantage is the broader perspective/openness of lecturers... a lot of friends at other unis constantly complain about having overly right wing or overly feminist or overly politically correct etc teachers who won't consider your opinion.. sure we have a few like that but the vast majority are really nice and really open to discussion... plus a lot of friends at other unis coplain about the lack of ability to approach lecturers for extra help or to ask general questions or to get references etc...

my experience has been that lecturers/tutors... out of the 20+ that have been my teachers, all except maybe 2? have been really helpful and approachable...

I guess the student base can be a relaly good thing or bad thing depending on your personality..

Eg... a lot of us, students and academics, have commented about the lowering standard of students... certain teachers who'll remain nameless have said that the law school in general is getting the shits with the general behaviour and lack of committment of students... juts little things like not participating in group work, not turning up to class, interrupting classes, not doing their work and as a result the pass/fail/credit etc rate has gotten worse.. but that said, these same academics have said taht where theses students have fallen in quality, others have risen.

So i guess it's just a matter of getting yourself on the positive side and finding yourself some good study buddies

Ultimately, just comes down to who you are and what you wanna do. Eg - if you want to go into say... strict corporate law asin big 3 type stuff, i woudlnt' recommend UWS... but if you're into just about anything else it's a good uni

Lotta good extra stuff around, just a matter of seeking it out - eg Pro Bono stuff, careers stuff, coop stuff... the usual things.

 

[LaraB]

Just to add too -

i hate this "it's coz of the lower cut off that students are lazy" thing.. it's just crap...sure it's teh case for some but this is not the overarching principle where all are concerned..

eg - i got into the course far above the cut off... but friends who JUST scraped in work waaaaaaay harder than i do... but sometimes it's the opposite..

i have to say, just from people i know in my classes - the laziest, rudest, most disruptive, most arrogant students are the ones who have transferred in after doing a year of another course or doing post grad work or those who got in well above the cut off and as a result think they course will be easier for them than others... of course that's not the case for all, but just generally what me and other friends have noticed... and too i was the year prior to the massive drop...

but still - the majority of the students aren't straight out of high school so you can't put the blame on them for teh current culture of the uni

 

[magic]

Thanks for the help and your informative responses.