Red lights (1 Viewer)

[miss_ripcurlgir]

So this afternoon, I sped up to drive through an orange light, and I passed the orange light and it went red straight after I went through it. As I went through it, I saw a cop car waiting in the opposite direction at the same set of lights and it put on its lights and did a u-turn. I kept going straight and he turned left at the next set of lights.

What are the chances of me getting done for speeding to go through an orange light?

 

[loquasagacious]

None. In this case.

The police car needs to pull you over to do you.

And their radars won't work at right angles to you so they could have only done you for running a red.

 

[Jiga]

Maybe use abit of common sense before starting a thread? Honestly its obvious they were responding to something else, and there have been other threads were it has been made clear... you only get done for going through a red light when the light is already red. If its orange when your tyres hit the lines you are ok!!! This particular forum is being flooded with stuff like this now... Ive had that many experiences like this and Im sure many other people do as well, but use some common sense, you didnt get pulled over... they were obviously responding to something else.

 

[Captain Obvious 1]

None. In this case.

The police car needs to pull you over to do you.

No they don't, but in this case it's clear that the car was responding to another job.

 

[synthesized]

loquasagacious][/b]Originally Posted by loquasagacious
None. In this case.

The police car needs to pull you over to do you.

No they don't,

so you mean they can still send you a speeding ticket even if they didn't pull you over? if this is true, then it doesn't really make sense. if a cop in a patrol car observes you driving in a dangerous manner - speeding, in this case - then isn't it their responsibility to give chase and pull you over so they can prevent any accident that you may cause? so, by not giving chase they are effectively saying that you are not doing anything dangerous by speeding......

 

[Captain Obvious 1]

If they aren't driving like an idiot (or like they are going to kill someone) then there's no need to pull them over if you have their number plate, and sometimes they can't because they don't have a light/siren.

My tutors do it all the time. They write down the number plate, what they did wrong (usually a series of traffic offences).. and if they bother to tell the person its when they pull up at a set of lights, wind down the window and say "yeh, you're getting $585 worth of fines ".

They aren't even in marked cars, but due to the prevalence of traffic crime, the person would have to do something way bad to get the officers attention.. Generally a series of crimes. Speeding <10KM/H over, or going through orange lights is common, so unless the cop is part of a dedicated operation to target that particular crime, chances are they wont even care. It isn't like big brother is watching, where if you go 1 KM H over, an undercover car can pop out of no where and pull you over.. but if you drive like a complete tool then its going to piss the police (and everyone else) off.

 

[synthesized]

If they aren't driving like an idiot like they are going to kill someone then there's no need to pull them over

yeah, so even the police think that 60km/h is too low a speed limit

 

[loquasagacious]

If they aren't driving like an idiot (or like they are going to kill someone) then there's no need to pull them over if you have their number plate, and sometimes they can't because they don't have a light/siren.

My tutors do it all the time. They write down the number plate, what they did wrong (usually a series of traffic offences).. and if they bother to tell the person its when they pull up at a set of lights, wind down the window and say "yeh, you're getting $585 worth of fines ".

They aren't even in marked cars, but due to the prevalence of traffic crime, the person would have to do something way bad to get the officers attention.. Generally a series of crimes. Speeding <10KM/H over, or going through orange lights is common, so unless the cop is part of a dedicated operation to target that particular crime, chances are they wont even care. It isn't like big brother is watching, where if you go 1 KM H over, an undercover car can pop out of no where and pull you over.. but if you drive like a complete tool then its going to piss the police (and everyone else) off.

I doubt very much the legality of that and would say that anyone fined in such a manner would have very good grounds to fight it in court....

 

[Wallyhead]

there have been other threads were it has been made clear... you only get done for going through a red light when the light is already red. If its orange when your tyres hit the lines you are ok!!!

WRONG!

I have received a ticket for going through an orange light. I didnt even speed up. The Cop said that i had time to stop but didnt. The penalty was the same as going through a red light, 3 points, except the fine was $30 less.

The thing that really pissed me off was the fact that it was the middle of the night, no other cars around except for the cop (which i didnt know was a cop at the time) who was a couple of hundred metres behind me.

 

[Dumsum]

Yeah. Orange = stop, people... the thing about going over the line when it is orange is a red light camera will not get you. Doesn't mean cops can't, if they deem it to have been safe to stop.

 

[synthesized]

WRONG!

I have received a ticket for going through an orange light. I didnt even speed up. The Cop said that i had time to stop but didnt. The penalty was the same as going through a red light, 3 points, except the fine was $30 less.

The thing that really pissed me off was the fact that it was the middle of the night, no other cars around except for the cop (which i didnt know was a cop at the time) who was a couple of hundred metres behind me.

that's pretty stupid, if i were you i would take it to court and at least get the fine reduced.

 

[Jiga]

Yeah. Orange = stop, people... the thing about going over the line when it is orange is a red light camera will not get you. Doesn't mean cops can't, if they deem it to have been safe to stop.

I always thought orange means prepare to stop... like if theirs safe distance. In the case of the thread starter, it was obvious the cops were responding to someone else.. they dont turn their sirons on and then just write down your details. As for getting done for going through an orange, Im sure you could challenge it, and any cop that does you for it is an absolute prick.

 

[Captain Obvious 1]

that's pretty stupid, if i were you i would take it to court and at least get the fine reduced.

No, the court would increase it (if found guilty). It's illegal to go through an orange light, it's a seperate offence by itself. You can only go through an orange legally, if you were travelling at such a speed and were so close to the lights that stopping is impossible.

 

[loquasagacious]

And whom is a better judge of this the driver or the police officer a hundred metres away? It's called reasonable doubt.

Challenge it, you have a good chance of a not-guilty.

Oh and captain obvious it occured to me yesterday one of the ways that your story was a lie told by you/your tutor. When writing a ticket the police need to include the license number and registration, no pull-over no license.

Also for anyone hit like this here are some other grounds:
-If it only has your rego on it not license then they can't prove who was driving so cast reasonable doubt on the fact that you were driving and your off.
-A considerable period of time between time of offence and time of issue is unacceptable.
-Check very carefully the time of offence, given the delays in taking down the offence the time may be mistaken and if you can prove you were somewhere else at the time then you're innocent.
-Do abit of digging in similar rego numbers, find a similar looking car with similar looking rego in your area and you're off.
-Any prior dealings with the police officer in question? Allege a set-up.
-You can't be done for speed unless they had a radar, that recorded a legitimate reading.
-Take it to court and if the issueing officer does not front and someone else is there instead have all evidence thrown out as heresay.

In short: Contact a lawyer, you're getting off. Self-represent, read up and you'll probably get off.

 

[Dumsum]

If it only has your rego on it not license then they can't prove who was driving so cast reasonable doubt on the fact that you were driving and your off.

Therefore you can get let off on, say, speeding through a speed camera?

You can't be done for speed unless they had a radar, that recorded a legitimate reading.

Is this just an NSW thing? Once I got done for neg driving in Qld and up there you have to go to court for that regardless. Anyway as I was waiting there was someone else in there who had been done for speeding... booked by a cop who didn't have a radar but was doing a "follow" or something. IE the cop was following him at the same speed, and he was over. The dude didn't have any grounds to stand on, the magistrate didn't budge on anything... so he was to end up coming back for a proper hearing. As I said though, this was in Qld and it may be different here, I dunno.

 

[Baiku]

Also for anyone hit like this here are some other grounds:
-If it only has your rego on it not license then they can't prove who was driving so cast reasonable doubt on the fact that you were driving and your off.
-A considerable period of time between time of offence and time of issue is unacceptable.
-Check very carefully the time of offence, given the delays in taking down the offence the time may be mistaken and if you can prove you were somewhere else at the time then you're innocent.
-Do abit of digging in similar rego numbers, find a similar looking car with similar looking rego in your area and you're off.
-Any prior dealings with the police officer in question? Allege a set-up.
-You can't be done for speed unless they had a radar, that recorded a legitimate reading.
-Take it to court and if the issueing officer does not front and someone else is there instead have all evidence thrown out as heresay.

In short: Contact a lawyer, you're getting off. Self-represent, read up and you'll probably get off.

I hope you're being sarcastic...
- The police do not need to identify the driver. There is an assumption that the owner is driving the car, which can be rebutted by a stat.dec. that says somebody else was driving.
- Whilst a considerable period of time is 'unacceptable' there is legislation governing the matter and I think you'll find it is quite generous in terms of time.
- Using an alibi in court is not going to make you 'innocent', the police have a lot more credibility than you saying you were at your hairdresser.
- Finding a similar looking car with similar registration number won't get you off a criminal offence, just like finding someone that looks like you won't get you off either.
- It is perjury to lie to the court about a belief of being set-up.
- You can be 'done for speeding' without a radar where your speed is obvious to a policeperson. For example, they are driving behind you or in front of you - ESPECIALLY when you overtake a police car (marked or unmarked) and they are driving near the limit.
- If the officer in question is not present at court, he would usually make a written statement to the court rather than have one of his peers present the evidence. It will not be struck-out for that reason.

Goodluck with your fines kids.

 

[Dumsum]

There really is a simple solution to it all, and that is to obey the law.

 

[Jiga]

^

But its not that 'simple' like saying just obey the law.... its up to a persons interpreation whether they think its safe to stop or not. We are not talking about going through a red light here afterall where its clear cut and someone is in the wrong.

- Finding a similar looking car with similar registration number won't get you off a criminal offence, just like finding someone that looks like you won't get you off either.

Well I think it would be almost impossible to gain access to information about number plates and the cars etc.... it would provide alot of doubt and you would get off I think.

Either way, I think the point was there is alot of doubt involved when a cop doesnt actually pull you over.... or when he gets you for going an orange light when they are a distance away etc.

 

[Captain Obvious 1]

^

But its not that 'simple' like saying just obey the law.... its up to a persons interpreation whether they think its safe to stop or not.

It's also up to a persons interpretation as to whether they think they are too late for work and that they should go through the orange light when perhaps a normal person wouldn't.

 

[Dumsum]

I have a theory that if the light turns red when you're half way through the intersection, you -probably- could have stopped. I'm not sure how often this would be the case though, since I've never really driven much in a city environment.