So how much does a Doctor really earn? (2 Viewers)

[leekiss]

I wonder if these people entering medicine purely for money/prestige realise how ewwww the profession can be. Smelling people's urine for diagnosis of infections, sticking your fingers up random places, patients/family members who abuse you. You can't even wear nice clothes to work because you just never know what might land on you.

 

[katie tully]

I see nothing ew about any of the above.

An anus is an anus. A vagina is a vagina. They have functions other than to be the butt of fart and sex jokes.

Urine is just metabolic waste products and excess water. Patients/family members abuse all health staff, not just doctors.

Idk, all of the above seem like petty reasons.

 

[KFunk]

The results are all acceptable as long as you accept that they are nothing but personal perspectives, that's all they are, personal perspectives. Same as the Gitmo example I offered earlier, the results of that survey reveals the reasons why certain people make the decisions they do, regardless of whether it's a reflection of reality or not from an objective standpoint.

I'll give you another example - you might send a similarly structured survey to George W Bush and he'll tell you the same thing, all his presidential decisions have been for the good of the world in the fight against terrorism. Same as all the med students who claim to be doing what they do for altruistic reasons.

Now, we all know Bush has been a major disaster and is generally perceived by the rest of the US and the world as one of the US's worst presidents, as evidenced by the WMD argument in Iraq and other issues.

I'm not saying med students are full of shit, but my point is, again and again to you, that it merely shows how med students perceive themselves only. The survey's worth is only as a subjective insight as to how med students justify their career decisions.

Point taken - I acknowledge that subjectivity is an issue when measuring perceptions - but the George Bush example is again a disanalogy. A survey across a group is able to iron out some of the lack of insight which is present in some members of the cohort. Some will be mistaken about some of their motivations. However, I think that if the vast majority report 'intellectual interest' as an important motivator then it is safe to assume that the majority (even if it is a smaller majority) of respondants are in fact motivated by intellectual concerns.

My issue at present is that your standards for proof are too high. Evidence admits of degrees - it is not an all or none matter. It is wrong to say that the survey results reflect "nothing but personal perspectives" or that the survey "shows how med students perceive themselves only".

The relevant assumption is that perceived motivations correlate with actual motivations when measured across a large group. This correlation may only be moderate, but I think it is a reasonable claim to make. Thus while a survey like this cannot determine the actual figures quantifying motivations, it can nonetheless demonstrate general trends - and this is all that matters for our purposes.

 

[Will Shakespear]

You seem like a sharp person, but the reasons that most asians are doctors aren't because their parents push them (that is partly the reason) but because asians achieve far better results than any other ethnic groups, period. I am Indian, we don't achieve as well as chinese and vietnamese, but we are up there. We are the ones dominating the top selective schools. You may well react and say "we have no lives" or "we don't know english well" or "we dont have a social life". Get a load of this: The top guy in my school, who has been invited to many international mathematics competitions, etc, is an awesome, talktative guy with a girlfriend. He speaks perfect english and writes eloquent essays. No single asian in my school or James Ruse, as my sources say are poor speakers of english, they probably beat most whites at their own language.

The future is in our hands.

lolz

the future's not in ur hands u idiot

institutional racism will prevent u from ever having any power...
sure, we'll let u earn a few hundred k, if u want

but u'll have to work 80 hour weeks slaving away in hospitals for it

meanwhile the CEOs on the millions or tens of millions are still almost entirely white farken males
not to mention the politicians

where's ur selective high school now?

 

[blue_chameleon]

lolz

the future's not in ur hands u idiot

institutional racism will prevent u from ever having any power...
sure, we'll let u earn a few hundred k, if u want

but u'll have to work 80 hour weeks slaving away in hospitals for it

meanwhile the CEOs on the millions or tens of millions are still almost entirely white farken males
not to mention the politicians

where's ur selective high school now?

YoU'rE bEiNg ToO mEaN!!!!1!1!

 

[RogueAcademic]

The relevant assumption is that perceived motivations correlate with actual motivations when measured across a large group. This correlation may only be moderate, but I think it is a reasonable claim to make. Thus while a survey like this cannot determine the actual figures quantifying motivations, it can nonetheless demonstrate general trends - and this is all that matters for our purposes.

I have no doubt that most med students think what they're doing is altruistic and I'm not arguing with the results of the survey based on that. It won't mean a thing though, if the med students argue that their intentions are altruistic and they're simultaneously planning a stop-work strike for an additional $100k on top of their current salary.

If this survey is to be perceived as complete (for the purposes of this debate about altruism), it needs another question or set of questions which asks each medical student to qualify what they perceive as 'altruistic'. Then, and only then, will we know exactly what the overall results mean, and what exactly they mean when they perceive themselves as altruistic in their intentions. Until then, the results only reveal the personal psychology and personal justifications of med students in making their decisions.

 

[KFunk]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think subjective data in the social sciences are more valuable than that, given careful interpretation, but it is fair enough if you disagree at the level of theory. Adieu.

 

[iSplicer]

What Indian people are best at: smelling bad, talking on their mobile phones loudly, seeing shitty Bollywood films and failing at trying to be cool to the white man.

Sorry bro, the future is in no ones hands but the white race.

WHITE POWER 1488

I can easily derive your intellectual maturity by looking at your avatar and signature. Joke or not, you are responding to my idea with completely racist and irrelevant attacks. When I get my UAI, lets match ours up =)

 

[blue_chameleon]

I can easily derive your intellectual maturity by looking at your avatar and signature. Joke or not, you are responding to my idea with completely racist and irrelevant attacks. When I get my UAI, lets match ours up =)

UAI.


Lol.

 

[u-borat]

I can easily derive your intellectual maturity by looking at your avatar and signature. Joke or not, you are responding to my idea with completely racist and irrelevant attacks. When I get my UAI, lets match ours up =)

no one gives a shit about ur uai, go back to kwikemart.

 

[Smithereens]

I can easily derive your intellectual maturity by looking at your avatar and signature. Joke or not, you are responding to my idea with completely racist and irrelevant attacks. When I get my UAI, lets match ours up =)

Racist? You're the one who's talking about Indian supremacy first of all. Yeah, lets see how shit it'll be am I right?

 

[tommykins]

I can easily derive your intellectual maturity by looking at your avatar and signature. Joke or not, you are responding to my idea with completely racist and irrelevant attacks. When I get my UAI, lets match ours up =)

stfu kid you know fuck all.

asians or ethnics might rip whites in academics but on a general plane they're richer than us.

why? they're not dumbasses that think the UAI indicates anything at all.

 

[Smithereens]

stfu kid you know fuck all.

asians or ethnics might rip whites in academics but on a general plane they're richer than us.

why? they're not dumbasses that think the UAI indicates anything at all.

repped.

 

[WouldbeDoctor]

Has anyone read the news lately?

Doctors & nurses have had to work with little supplies in the hospitals, essentials like gloves and drugs are all lacking because of the low funding provided. Many of the suppliers and doctors have all been out of pocket, the NSW health department is worse off then ever.

Sure a doctor is supposed to earn a fair amount of money but even the top the top surgeons have walked out. Not to mention the doggy things on the side.

Surgeons stealing body parts and replacing them with other items.

A plastic surgeon sexually assaulting an actress

Dr. Harold Shipman- A.K.A Doctor death

The young woman who had meningococcal died because of the misdiagnosis

Another patient died on the floor and was left there for a couple hours before anybody noticed.

A woman fell off an operating table and had to have another surgery on top of the one she was having because of someone stupid mistake.

Everyone points the finger at all the young interns because they are replacing the senior staff who are all walking out because they have had enough.

Nurses are turning towards prostitution rather then risking a law suit for all the corners the hospitals have to cut and they say it is safer then the threats and violence that are present in the hospitals. (With better pay I might add)

Recently a woman who had a severe case of bulimia eventually died because of the lack of funding.

Did anyone mention the lines you have to wait while seeing a G.P? I would be dead already if I had a serious illness and even if I was first in line the doctor won't give you the anti-biotics prescription!

This is only the tip of the iceberg ladies and gentlemen, things will only get worse before they will get any better.

 

[Lucid Scintilla]

'What if med didn't come with the supposedly bad-arsed salary?', in effect.

Good question. Take salary out of the equation and the only people left doing medicine would be the ones doing it for the prestige, the apparent high regard afforded to their 'Dr' status by society. Take prestige away, and a vast majority of them wouldn't even be there.

Doctor is an assumed title, and genuine doctors of [bleh] are misleading, or medical student's usage is erroneous - whoever cares, though.

If there really was an altruistic basis, the same students applying for medicine would also be applying for nursing. The vast majority of med students wouldn't be caught dead in the nursing profession if they hadn't made it into medicine.

I wonder if these people entering medicine purely for money/prestige realise how ewwww the profession can be. Smelling people's urine for diagnosis of infections, sticking your fingers up random places, patients/family members who abuse you. You can't even wear nice clothes to work because you just never know what might land on you.

You're being rather immature, ignorant, prudish, etc.

To bluntly put it, it's part of the job description; deal with it, or don't be there.
(And perhaps, don't be such a goddamned pussy.)

If you can't handle people, or the work, don't be a clinician/internalist; if you can't handle blood, have an unsteady hand, etc., don't be a surgeon; if that's neither of those are your thing or, simply put, you suck at them, become a diagnostic specialist (pathologist, hematologist, radiologist, clinical microbiologist, clinical neurophysiologist, etc.).

To answer, why not nursing; it's not a matter of assuming altruism or academia/wasted UAI, etc. In short, while there is an academic side to nursing, it's hella vocational in comparison to the medicine - medicine has more to do with the diagnosis of medical conditions and the treatments thereof, while nursing covers the patient's response to disease and treatments.
(Also, you can't specialize in nursing as you can in medicine; for example, psychiatrists must be doctors, and surgeons must be doctors, too.)

Blahdy-crap about differences and similarities, etc.

asians or ethnics might rip whites in academics but on a general plane they're richer than us.

Look at private schools, tommykins.

Realistically, shut the hell up about this racist crap; both sides of the argument.

I can easily derive your intellectual maturity by looking at your avatar and signature. Joke or not, you are responding to my idea with completely racist and irrelevant attacks. When I get my UAI, lets match ours up =)

If you sat your tests for all your HSC subjects in Yr2008, your UAI would be different if you sat it this year.

After like two months after the release of UAI's, no one really gives a shit about them; all that matters is course and uni, etc., but even then, if you like whatever the hell you're doing, good on you.

Newbie, you have a way to go.
... and they're trolling you. *mock horror* :O

Money, prestige, fame, status, powerz!1!, etc.; all superficial and vain reasons to undertake medical training.
Finance/commerce, certain engineering, business; that's where money's at, and it's repulsive.

Has anyone read the news lately?

Doctors & nurses have had to work with little supplies in the hospitals, essentials like gloves and drugs are all lacking because of the low funding provided. Many of the suppliers and doctors have all been out of pocket, the NSW health department is worse off then ever.

Well, ain't that dandy? Such is the state of New South Wales, and Australia, in general.

[Stuff...]

Did anyone mention the lines you have to wait while seeing a G.P? I would be dead already if I had a serious illness and even if I was first in line the doctor won't give you the anti-biotics prescription!

This is only the tip of the iceberg ladies and gentlemen, things will only get worse before they will get any better.

Good god!

Thanks for eliciting surprise, or not; and painting this cynical black-and-white picture.


Re: Thread title question; actually not that much (after ten+ years, a nice six-figure salary (not accounting super, and after tax, etc.)), or else they'd be a influx of doctors in Sydney's east and north.

 

[Charity F]

omg Lucid :wave:

 

[Lucid Scintilla]

Oh, hey?! *raise*
:wave:

I swear on someone's life that this post will be deleted, as it's spam, violating unwritten and unspoken rules, etc.

 

[WouldbeDoctor]

Well, ain't that dandy? Such is the state of New South Wales, and Australia, in general.
Good god!.

Australia is supposed to be one of the best in healthcare, we have something called medicare which takes a 10 percent levy which we pay for in tax. It's a service they we are paying good money for and one which we're not reaping the benefits.

For every bad case I mentioned there are 10 others that we have not heard of. If it is happening in this great country of ours then imagine how bad it is in other parts of the world.

America does not even have medicare.

Thanks for eliciting surprise, or not; and painting this cynical black-and-white picture.

People don't seem to understand what they are in for when they enter ANY health related job. If I have to draw a pretty crayon picture for Lucid I would be happy to do so, since art seems to be your area of expertise.

 

[RogueAcademic]

Also, you can't specialize in nursing as you can in medicine

ohhhh yes you can:

Programs for registered nurses



Our suite of postgraduate specialty and advanced practice coursework programs is available to registered nurses who want to take a lead in their chosen specialty area. Available specialties include: anaesthetics; critical care; emergency; perioperative, rural critical care; paediatric critical care; cancer and palliative care; mental health; paediatrics; and primary care.
Because of the articulated structure of our specialty and advanced practice programs, you can enrol in the Master of Advanced Nursing Practice in your chosen specialty, or you can enrol in the certificate or diploma first and then complete additional studies to gain the 200 credit points required for your masters degree.
​

 

[Charity F]

This is only the tip of the iceberg ladies and gentlemen, things will only get worse before they will get any better.

thanks for the heads up man
you've really hit the spot in terms of an argument... which was what, exactly?

health policy is an integral part of the curriculum in any case

Oh, hey?! *raise*
:wave:
I swear on someone's life that this post will be deleted, as it's spam, violating unwritten and unspoken rules, etc.

heh