Does God exist? (12 Viewers)

[Tangent]

I believe Homosexuals do make the decision to engage in homosexual relationships.

but if god makes us, and knows what we will do in our life, then y would he allow homosexuals into creation if he hates them....

i have no more control over my sexuality than u over yours
i m made how i m made, if i am a sin, then blame god for creating me

 

[Kwayera]

I ask you the same thing. How do you know your nothign but binary codes?

You dont't. You can't. So why belive in reality?

Please dont say you dont...

You're not getting it. It doesn't matter if this reality is really real, or virtual, or "binary codes". What it is does not affect anything I do or do not do because I cannot perceive whether this reality is real/virtual/binary or not.

Again with the smacking you over the head with a heavy book and shouting "IS THIS REAL? IS THIS REAL?!"

Well, stimulation is going to be costly, at least 10 grand, and i know that your a student and not rich. Man oh man, sure thats how all christians do it, by deep brain stimulation. But for you, i let you come to church for free and hear the teachings without a charge.

I was speaking tongue-in-cheek. And you seem to be operating under the assumption that I have not been to church and been exposed to Christian "teachings". May it please the court that I have had rigorous religious instruction for eleven years of my life - five years of generic Christian scripture at primary school, and going to a Presbyterian church youth group during that time, and six years of heavy-handed Anglican instruction at my high school, which included compulsary chapel and Christian Studies courses throughout that time.

 

[Cookie182]

1I have a non-christian family, they have nothing to do with my been a christian, i don't think i actually truly believed until i was about 15, until then i knew what christians believed, though i was one, but i don't think i was, or even had a understanding of what been a christian meant


2. Pre-christians i believe would go to heaven provided they trusted that god would send a saviour, i recently heard about these missionaries and they were telling these people about the bible from begining to end, they had not even got up to jesus yet, they had heard the stuff in the old testament but did not actually know he had come, one died, and he had extrodinary faith that god would send a saviour, i believe he would of gone to heaven

lol so ur leaving ur family behind? They're condemed, according to you. Also, I wouldn't say I'm a "dirty rotten sinner". I mean, I like to think I have respectable hygiene (given I shower and brush my teeth twice a day, use lysterine...)

Funny thing, I ask questions and continually get no answers. You are so fundamentally wrapped in your ideology that you can not even think outside of it for a second. What good is a mindset you can't critique? Why engage in debate? See, I'm here to learn- extend my opinions, be PROVEN wrong on issues, adopt new theories- the constant flux I like to discuss. Your still living in the 1st Century.

 

[Cookie182]

but if god makes us, and knows what we will do in our life, then y would he allow homosexuals into creation if he hates them....

i have no more control over my sexuality than u over yours
i m made how i m made, if i am a sin, then blame god for creating me

Exactly. I'm assuming your homosexual. Well, according to this fundie you have one arsehole of a father. He created you, to have you tortured and abandoned for eternity.

 

[Cookie182]

It's not such a wild proposition to say that we are inherently evil - or will always opt for the most selfish and individually benificial option, to the detriment of many others. Serious atheists believe this also, though they offer no explaination like original sin.

I also dont agree that "faith" gives one license to disguard any scientific truth or any logic or reason that stares us in the face. Evolution is a good example, where the Church is open to the idea that we evolved as a species and that we should therefore read Genisis poetically. No probs, the theology can adapt to great human endevours. Likewise, I thnk that the Christian has to have his beliefs grounded in specific theology revolving around the moral law. This job of reconcilling the Word with the World is best left to the professionals - that is why Catholics have a tight organisation to resolve such matters that arise by the by

Your rhetoric is poetically beautiful but I wish for once you would cut the 'love' talk and answer some direct questions. Theist's would have much more respect if they showed this ability.

 

[Tangent]

he will let satan tempt you so much that it is not possible for you not to overcome, you need his help to though.

and he does not hate them he hates what they do

so even if i m happy, even if im not hurting anyone....

wat really pisses me off is that there was this guy in a chatroom last night called "kill all gays". he was religious and because the bible said it was ok, he hated gays. he told us a story about how there was a transvestite outside a coffee shop and how he spat in their face..... and went on to say how good it made him feel

and if god knows what we are going to do before he creates us, because he is all knowing, then why doesnt he change us before he creates us, or just not create us in the first place. All he has done is create a path for hate

 

[Cookie182]

but you are totally depraved by sin

accordingly, you are as well.

Ok, now we're on the same page.

Give me some answers.

 

[rant]

but you are totally depraved by sin

beyond help this one

 

[Cookie182]

so even if i m happy, even if im not hurting anyone....

wat really pisses me off is that there was this guy in a chatroom last night called "kill all gays". he was religious and because the bible said it was ok, he hated gays. he told us a story about how there was a transvestite outside a coffee shop and how he spat in their face..... and went on to say how good it made him feel

and if god knows what we are going to do before he creates us, because he is all knowing, then why doesnt he change us before he creates us, or just not create us in the first place. All he has done is create a path for hate

Like this discriminatory, un-intelligent fool we're engaging in conversation with. The fact these people still exist in the 21st Century is a true testamony to the stupor that is religion.

 

[Cookie182]

no we are created to be in a relationship with God, our sin just stops it

sounds incest

 

[rant]

god the father

 

[Lukybear]

You're not getting it. It doesn't matter if this reality is really real, or virtual, or "binary codes". What it is does not affect anything I do or do not do because I cannot perceive whether this reality is real/virtual/binary or not.

Again with the smacking you over the head with a heavy book and shouting "IS THIS REAL? IS THIS REAL?!"

Im sorry, i dont think im getting it. Are you saying that I know for sure that God is there, meanign i can percieve and it will affect me?

My intuition is that God is there, and thats why i believe.

I dont see how it relates to your question. If i do have mental illness, and the perception of God is all due to it, then i dont see how it will affect anything either?

I was speaking tongue-in-cheek. And you seem to be operating under the assumption that I have not been to church and been exposed to Christian "teachings". May it please the court that I have had rigorous religious instruction for eleven years of my life - five years of generic Christian scripture at primary school, and going to a Presbyterian church youth group during that time, and six years of heavy-handed Anglican instruction at my high school, which included compulsary chapel and Christian Studies courses throughout that time.

I am impressed. Then perhaps you should have more knowledge about the bible then me. On percieving God, perhaps vist a church again. Obviously you dont attend anymore. But if you do, dont go with the attitude that God is fake, but go with an open mind.

 

[Cookie182]

real question for the religious folks on this thread isn't really about the existence of god or what not, but more so the hypothetical situation where if your faith is proven to be wrong and another religion is proven to be correct.

would you be strong enough to let go and embrace the truth?

Given you used the word proof, any atheist would happily accept that religion. This is a very good question for the theist's and one I'd love an answer to.

How would you feel as a muslim if Judaism was 'proven' (beyond reasonable doubt) to be the truth?

 

[Tangent]

if there is a god, then y did he create us. so he'd have someone that loves and worships him?
if there really was a god, then wouldnt he want us to enjoy every moment of our existence

 

[Kwayera]

Im sorry, i dont think im getting it. Are you saying that I know for sure that God is there, meanign i can percieve and it will affect me?

My intuition is that God is there, and thats why i believe.

I dont see how it relates to your question. If i do have mental illness, and the perception of God is all due to it, then i dont see how it will affect anything either?

You just said earlier that you perceive a god to be there, and I said, essentially, "how do you know it is what it is and not something else?" because you are apparently convinced of it. Your "intuition" is your perception. Comparing it, in this context, with my apparent belief in perceiving this.. apparition of reality as real is a straw man in this context, as the reality - or not - of.. reality has no bearing on what I do. I do not care. You, clearly, do, with regards to your belief in your god.

I am impressed. Then perhaps you should have more knowledge about the bible then me. On percieving God, perhaps vist a church again. Obviously you dont attend anymore. But if you do, dont go with the attitude that God is fake, but go with an open mind.

I am continually amazed at the egotism you Christians show when someone like me goes through all the motions, and finds nothing that you claim to find. "Oh, you just don't have an open mind!" Horseshit. I was exposed to your Bible and your god when I was six years old. No one that age goes around convinced anything is fake.

 

[Iron]

Given you used the word proof, any atheist would happily accept that religion. This is a very good question for the theist's and one I'd love an answer to.

How would you feel as a muslim if Judaism was 'proven' (beyond reasonable doubt) to be the truth?

It's not a good question because we aaaaallllll know that it cannot be proven on earth. We have exhhhaaaaausted this soil.
There seems to be confusion here. The choice to acknoweldge and accept God is an internal one with very little direct assistance from the external world. It is perfect that this is so, because the believers generally only include genuine believers who have no tangible reason to suspect that they will greatly benifit from their decision. And that's what the faith is all about! Choosing a cause GREATER than yourself, a cause of beauty and goodness and truth. What better system could there be to include only those who love, as God loves us?

 

[Cookie182]

I'll put it out there:

My major problem

The fact that 'religion' (as shown here) supersedes spirituality. I have no problem with formulating some kind of spiritual belief- something INTERNAL that gives you comfort in regards to your position in this world- morally, where you come from, your identity etc

There is nothing wrong with that.

But let's face it, as BOS's like emytaylor demonstrate. Religion takes people far beyond this. To the realm of the unquestionable, devout ideology- an ideology which promotes segregation and hatred towards other social groups. A hatred which focuses externally- even if they deny this as 'hatred', it is there. These thought's do nothing to advance your internal spiritual development- they only create conflict when you cross paths with someone as blindly devout as you are, yet in an opposite way.

It is ‘belief systems’ such as this that hinder humanity's development. That disguises themselves as ‘good family values’ and morals, but are quite the contrary. People murder in the name of God- yet God clearly instructs them that murder is the highest order sin. Also, beliefs of this calibre hinder education and learning. They are adopted by those who wish to think no more- the instant gratification seekers, who want answers which are ‘validated’ as the only truth. At some level, you know that you are not certain. Deny It if you must. I accept and embrace this uncertainty everyday- but it doesn’t come from a position of selfish fear. It comes from a position of amazement. There is so much more to be discovered in what I perceive as a ‘beautiful and good natured world’. Why do you need that certainty that God created the rain I hear right now? Take a step back and just enjoy it for its soothing, auditory qualities. I assure you, it's a great 'spiritual' feeling. It could be the last thing you ever hear.

I’m an optimist, a pacifist and a lover of humanity. Goodnight, and self bless!

 

[esstown]

Given you used the word proof, any atheist would happily accept that religion. This is a very good question for the theist's and one I'd love an answer to.

How would you feel as a muslim if Judaism was 'proven' (beyond reasonable doubt) to be the truth?

wow cookie.. you want answers, your not going to find them most probably. Go and do some research however, one of my friends who was in a similar situation to you is now a christian because of it. All he told me was "I found there was just no other way"

On the topic of other peoples religions. That's something I find most hurtful. To know that they aren't open to christianity as we are and that they will suffer for it i find it absurd. Great people like Ghandi even, it's sad to find he himself would have gone to hell.

but if god makes us, and knows what we will do in our life, then y would he allow homosexuals into creation if he hates them....

i have no more control over my sexuality than u over yours
i m made how i m made, if i am a sin, then blame god for creating me

God created you as you are, it was your choice to engage in homosexuality. I'm not condemning you for it however it is true you processed thoughts and feelings and found that is where you want to be.

 

[Iron]

I totally reject that we are for 'hate'. If people murder for God, then they are acting contrary to His wishes, k?
Your muddled thoughts on the matter are very annoying

 

[Tangent]

God created you as you are, it was your choice to engage in homosexuality. I'm not condemning you for it however it is true you processed thoughts and feelings and found that is where you want to be.

but if god knows every decision that im going to make, every thought in my head, yet he still lets me into being