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Rudds use of Colloquial Language: Is this the right track? (2 Viewers)

blue_chameleon

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ABC News said:

Canberra Chameleon: Rudd gets saucy


Experts have branded prime minister Kevin Rudd a linguistic chameleon after his recent attempts to use colloquialisms like "shit storm" and "fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate".

Yesterday Mr Rudd used the slang expression "fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate" three times in a television interview with sky news.

Two university of queensland academics say Mr Rudd is a sophisticated communicator and that his range in language - from intellectual to colloquial - is an attempt to adapt to various audiences, like a chameleon changes colour to suit its surroundings.

But Dr Ian Ward, a reader in politics who specialises in political communication, says the sauce bottle phrase was poorly chosen. "I think the 'fair shake of tomato sauce bottle' line was so out of character that it ... Would appear contrived," he said.

"But if it were more subtly done then it might not be seen as a negative."

Dr Ward says the prime minister's sudden change in tone has probably been prompted by research suggesting the public believes he is out of touch with ordinary Australians.

"Kevin Rudd as prime minister has been constantly criticised by the journalists and others for being a policy wonk and using long and complicated sentences and answering questions in convoluted and boring ways," he said.

"So he probably does have a problem cutting through in the way [John] Howard, his predecessor, did.

"It hasn't damaged his prime ministership thus far, but he's now beginning to think in terms of the coming election and it wouldn't hurt for him to be seen in more of a populist way as the election draws closer."

Professor of Applied Language studies Roly Sussex, a regular contributor to abc radio, says Mr Rudd's success at connecting with ordinary Australians will depend on how genuine he is being.

"If it's part of his natural way of speaking I think it's very likely that he will succeed," he said.

"But the use of the 's' word i thought sounded a little scripted... It wasn't as natural as some of the other things i've heard him say."

Professor Sussex says Mr Rudd is deliberately trying to communicate in a less "egg-headed" way.

"If he wants to make an image that ordinary folks in australia are going to respond to i think he's got a bit of work to do."

Both Professor Sussex and Dr Ward describe Mr Rudd as a chameleon communicator.

Though, they admit Mr Rudd is not alone in this endeavour, saying Bob Hawke, Paul Keating and John Howard all used similar tactics.

"Bob Hawke had two or three different styles depending on whether he was talking to the trade union movement or people in the house or a formal dinner, and one of the things good speakers do is adapt their language to suit the occasion," Professor Sussex said.

"But Mr Rudd doesn't have the same interest in talkback radio and the same openness to ordinary voters that Howard did, or indeed Paul Keating did, and his language use isn't as crisp as Keating's," Dr Ward said.
Inevitable that Rudd has once again tried to change his style of communication to suit his audience., and failed miserably. His motive is understandable though, as his four consecutive predecessor PM's used these techniques. However, it's his execution that lets him down and begs the questions: Exactly how many 'ordinary Australian's' actually take his attempts seriously?

As Ward points out, Rudd doesn't have interest in talk back radio or openness to ordinary voters and his language isn't 'crisp'. He needs to work on this harder if he is to fully convince those he is presenting to. But this wont come overnight and he needs to stop trying to force it. There's nothing innovative in his attempt to improve his image by using colloquial language. He's not that kind of person and he shouldn't try to be.

I think 'believability' all boils down to how genuine the presenter actually is. At the moment, he's trying too achieve too much, too soon. He's not a Keating, Howard or Hawke. He's shouldn't kid himself. He's trying too hard.

In comparison to his four predecessors, I don't think Rudd is hitting the mark. However, it is early days yet. He may improve with time.

Thoughts?

Source: Canberra chameleon: Rudd gets saucy - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 

whatashotbyseve

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Rudd's need to be the man for all seasons may just prove to be his downfall. In politics, you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Rudd doesn't seem to know who he wants to be: intellectual right-wing Labor attempting to lure softcore Liberals, or bogan-loving Hawke clone who is the voice of the people. He is neither, although for the sake of this country he needs to be more of the former.
 

Jessica14

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Rudd's need to be the man for all seasons may just prove to be his downfall. In politics, you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Rudd doesn't seem to know who he wants to be: intellectual right-wing Labor attempting to lure softcore Liberals, or bogan-loving Hawke clone who is the voice of the people. He is neither, although for the sake of this country he needs to be more of the former.
Agreed.
 

blue_chameleon

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Rudd's need to be the man for all seasons may just prove to be his downfall. In politics, you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Rudd doesn't seem to know who he wants to be: intellectual right-wing Labor attempting to lure softcore Liberals, or bogan-loving Hawke clone who is the voice of the people. He is neither, although for the sake of this country he needs to be more of the former.
That's true. All this comes down to is Rudd trying to present as something he is not and more to the point, not being convincing at it. If you want to create a false illusion of who you are in politics, you have to be good at it. You have to make it believable.

Stick to what you know, Kevin. If you're convincing, you'll be more likely to get voters attention.
 
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Lentern

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That's true. All this comes down to is Rudd trying to present as something he is not and more to the point, not being convincing at it. If you want to create a false illusion of who you are in politics, you have to be good at it. You have to make it believable.

Stick to what you know, Kevin. If you're convincing, you'll be more likely to get voters attention.
I would like to preface my comments by saying this is a reflection on Kevin Rudds ability to play politics not to govern.

I don't like Rudd, I've allways found him smug but the constant criticisms of how he manages his image and how he comes across as fake etc I'm inclined to say is bullshit. He is easilly more popular than any politician except Hawke and Menzies, neither of which lost an election in their political careers so whether or not it struck a chord with me, you or joe the plumber seems irrelevant if it strikes a chord with sixty percent of people. The idea that he doesn't connect when he pulls the approval ratings he pulls doesn't add up.

I remember detractors suggesting his sing song cliche's would soon wear thin and he'd crash down to earth back when he was in opposition.
 
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blue_chameleon

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I remember detractors suggesting his sing song cliche's would soon wear thin and he'd crash down to earth back when he was in opposition.
Fair points.

However, he hasn't been in for that long, so we can't rule out that it wont occur.

Don't get me wrong here Lentern, I don't think that I am some kind of expert political barometer. I'm just saying that I believe that based on his performance so far, he's not as convincing as others before him have been, and that surely there are others out there that share this belief.

Outside of the obvious polls, what are you basing his popularity (much higher than any other politician except Hawke and Menzies) on?
 

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Fair points.

However, he hasn't been in for that long, so we can't rule out that it wont occur.

Don't get me wrong here Lentern, I don't think that I am some kind of expert political barometer. I'm just saying that I believe that based on his performance so far, he's not as convincing as others before him have been, and that surely there are others out there that share this belief.

Outside of the obvious polls, what are you basing his popularity (much higher than any other politician except Hawke and Menzies) on?
Just polls really although i think there is something to read into about the way the coalition is churning through leaders like there's no tommorow.
 

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Intellectually, I agree with your impression, on examination he comes across as a weak fraud.

However, my base emotional impression of the man when he makes a public appearance is of someone who is warm, even-tempered and inoffensive.

Most Australians won't care or engage in this kind of analysis. The fact he is making an effort to communicate and appeal to average voters appears amusing and harmless.
 

blue_chameleon

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Just polls really although i think there is something to read into about the way the coalition is churning through leaders like there's no tommorow.
Who, Nelson? One person who, as nice as he was personally, had the political personality of a wet sao?

Not a very strong indication of how that transfers into Rudd being the most popular politician outside of Hawke/Menzies. :/

Anyway, this is a bit off track really. Question: Do you think Rudd is taking the right approach to improving his image in line with what he thinks will resonate with 'ordinary Australians'? Is this his best/only available option?
 

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Rudd's need to be the man for all seasons may just prove to be his downfall. In politics, you cannot please all of the people all of the time. Rudd doesn't seem to know who he wants to be: intellectual right-wing Labor attempting to lure softcore Liberals, or bogan-loving Hawke clone who is the voice of the people. He is neither, although for the sake of this country he needs to be more of the former.
Ruddkip is a hardcore social democrat here to bring about the long overdue revolution.
 

blue_chameleon

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Intellectually, I agree with your impression, on examination he comes across as a weak fraud.

However, my base emotional impression of the man when he makes a public appearance is of someone who is warm, even-tempered and inoffensive.

Most Australians won't care or engage in this kind of analysis. The fact he is making an effort to communicate and appeal to average voters appears amusing and harmless.
Agreed. Most Australians can't and wont analyse the reasons behind this. The reason I suspect they can't analyse it, is because of the level of media management Rudd has going on.

I expect politicians to make mistakes. I eagerly wait for them to do so, so that I can hear how they respond and whether this response is honest. I know it's unrealistic to expect politicians, especially in this day and age to call a spade a spade, but it still doesn't stop me from being a strong believer of integrity and honesty.

My base emotion is the similar to the one you presented Graney, in that without the analysis of his gestures and use of language, he gives the impression of warmth and openness. I wouldn't want to be perceived as the 'excessively pessimistic' type that questions absolutely everything, but I can't shake constantly analysing Rudd's attempts at public addresses and whether his is being genuine or repairing his image. Maybe it stems from him picking his nose during Question Time, but I have never been able to take Rudd's addresses seriously when he butchers colloquialisms.

Just a hunch here, but I have a feeling that the small percentage of Australians that use these colloquialisms would be able to see 'as clear as day' that it is an obvious put on, and may even take offence?
 
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blue_chameleon

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That's the first time I have ever heard that supposedly "Aussie" expression.
ANU Dictionary Centre said:
'Fair suck of the sauce bottle':

Steady on, be reasonable. This is one of several variations on the Australian exclamation ‘fair go’.

It expresses a keen sense of injustice—'fair suck of the sauce bottle, mate, I’m only asking for a loan till payday!'

Sometimes ‘saveloy’ or ‘sav’ is substituted for ‘sauce bottle’. The phrase ‘fair crack of the whip’ has the same meaning.
The more you know.
 

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Who, Nelson? One person who, as nice as he was personally, had the political personality of a wet sao?

Not a very strong indication of how that transfers into Rudd being the most popular politician outside of Hawke/Menzies. :/

Anyway, this is a bit off track really. Question: Do you think Rudd is taking the right approach to improving his image in line with what he thinks will resonate with 'ordinary Australians'? Is this his best/only available option?
Nelson, a victim of circumstance who was a senior cabinet minister for a reason, Turnbull more likely than not will not make it to the election either. But it wasn't the main indicator the main indicator is polling how else do you decide whether or not someone is popular "everyone I know think kevin is doing a top notch job" yeah right.

Do I think Rudd could do a fair bit better? Yes, do I think it is highly effective as he is and abandoning his style wold be a foolish gamble? yes.
 

blue_chameleon

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...how else do you decide whether or not someone is popular "everyone I know think kevin is doing a top notch job" yeah right.
Can you reformat that? I can't for the life of me find out where/how the last two words fit in with the sentence.

I know you're saying "How else do you decide whether someone is popular or not, beyond a poll?", but you lost me after that. :(
 

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ha! i loled at the T.V. when he said 'fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate'. It sounded so fake and unnatural coming out of his mouth.

As when he says 'folks'.

The problem with Rudd is he doesn't come across as genuine. People can never work out whether what he says is focus-group contrived or actually what he thinks. This is enhanced by the fact that he is never direct, he has totally mastered the art of avoiding the question. I politicians are hardly ever direct/completely truthful, but Rudd is really bad.

"Enough of the truth, lets get back to politics"
 

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Can you reformat that? I can't for the life of me find out where/how the last two words fit in with the sentence.

I know you're saying "How else do you decide whether someone is popular or not, beyond a poll?", but you lost me after that. :(
I'm saying you get some people who tend to think that polls are all just fabrications and the real way to find out is to get out there yourself and talk to a few people. It's bollocks you'll learn jack shit from talking to a few dozen people in one electorate or evena few thousand, polls are the only really effective way to read the nation.
 

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Thought bubble about the paradox of Kevin's phoniness and why he's so popular. Most of the phony things he said have been rhetoric, so what if...

...You get some people who just love language and in particular love talking in expressions. Peter Roebuck the ABC cricket journalist is one who just loves playing around with cliches and puns etc. Paul Livingstone is another. These people tend to pick up new ones and for a few weeks afterwards they like to play with it a fair bit like a kid who gets a new video but only uses it in moderation after it turns a month old. Kevin is just one of those wordsmiths.

So Kevin isn't being phoney or anything, he's just picked up a new phrase and is having fun with it. Like "there's no silver bullet" its just something enjoys saying at the moment. In a month Kevin will get bored and start sayig "I see you've played knifey spoony before."...

End of thoughtbubble.
 

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