• Best of luck to the class of 2024 for their HSC exams. You got this!
    Let us know your thoughts on the HSC exams here
  • YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
MedVision ad

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.... (1 Viewer)

Should home schooling be allowed?

  • Yes - as is

    Votes: 20 27.4%
  • Yes - with additional regulations

    Votes: 40 54.8%
  • No

    Votes: 13 17.8%

  • Total voters
    73

loller

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
374
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Dont know if this applies to Australia, but Homeschooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
supporting research is interesting
The formal education of parents of homeschooled children is usually much greater than the average, same for income and the students academic performance
 

dieburndie

Eat, Sleep, Repeat
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
971
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Dont know if this applies to Australia, but Homeschooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
supporting research is interesting
The formal education of parents of homeschooled children is usually much greater than the average, same for income and the students academic performance
That article states the complete opposite :confused:.
According to a 2000–2001 Barna survey,[62][63] home school parents are 39 percent less likely to be college graduates, 21 percent more likely to be married, 28 percent less likely to have experienced a divorce, and that the household income is 10% below the national average. Barna found that homeschoolers in the U.S. live predominantly in the Mid-Atlantic, the South-Atlantic, and the Pacific states. It found that homeschoolers are almost twice as likely to be evangelical as the national average (15 percent vs 8 percent), and that 91 percent describe themselves as Christian, although only 49 percent can be classified as "born again Christians." It found they were five times more likely to describe themselves as "mostly conservative" on political matters than as "mostly liberal," although only about 37 percent chose "mostly conservative", and were "notably" more likely than the national average to have a high view of the Bible and hold orthodox Christian beliefs.
It seems to support the claim that homeschooling is commonly a tool used by fundamentalist crazies to ensure their children don't become broadly educated enough that they start questioning their faith.
 

loller

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
374
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Haha oh i just read that table below is which says the opposite :confused:?
 

chelsea girl

everybody knows
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
617
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
I don't think this is an area where you can say either one is right or wrong. Just as different children can be taught most effectively through all sorts of different mediums, they will respond differently to teaching environments.

Home schooling certainly has its place in society. For instance, disabled people who live in small towns that have one school which is not accessible; or children with severe learning difficulties whose parents cannot afford to send them to a special school (the fees for those places are astronomical).

However, on the other hand, I don't think it's right to assume that "parents are the best teachers" and that their children will respond to them better than a regular school teacher who is not as emotionally invested in the child's school work (on a personal level). I know that, for me personally, home schooling would've been the worst thing ever because of the pressure my father placed on academic achievement. Also, many contrary children act up more with their parents than anyone else; or, conversely, children may be more afraid of their parents than anyone else.

I do think it's very important that children get social stimulation outside of their home and family, but it's important to acknowledge that this does not mean that for everyone it has to be in the form of regular schooling. Some children simply will not suit it, and it's vital that parents have a range of options open to them.
 

kami

An iron homily
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
4,265
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
I'm rather anti-institution but I believe every child should have some kind of schooling outside of home. A good model that I've heard from some home schoolers in the states is that they have school presence in that they're enrolled in that school's extra-curricular activities as well as about one day a week of classes. This way the parent can more easily make use of work in relation to the current syllabus but still be able to model their child's education in the most efficient manner. Also gives the parent a day off to stop both parties from going insane.
 

Iron

Ecclesiastical Die-Hard
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
7,765
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
I'm rather anti-institution but I believe every child should have some kind of schooling outside of home. A good model that I've heard from some home schoolers in the states is that they have school presence in that they're enrolled in that school's extra-curricular activities as well as about one day a week of classes. This way the parent can more easily make use of work in relation to the current syllabus but still be able to model their child's education in the most efficient manner. Also gives the parent a day off to stop both parties from going insane.
Yeah but youre anti-family, anti-birth, anti-life leftist pinko etcetera
 

JasmineNuytre

I AM ACTUALLY BIGPOLE
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
79
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Yes, home schooling should be illegal, unless in very special circumstances such as a child's mental/social condition.

Firstly, home-schooling lowers the social abilities of the children enrolled in its courses. When a child does not go to school and does not interact with children their age, their social development is hindered. I'm not saying home-schoold children have no social interaction, I'm just saying its obvious that they have much less (and in some cases, none at all) than the children who go to school and learn in a classroom surrounded by peers. There are numerous things that home-schooled children can do to achieve social interaction (Sports, camps, scouts) but on the whole, none of these activities compare to an actual school setting. This lack of social interaction affects the children's ability to make friends and relate to people later in life, eventually becoming a liability.

And the lack of social interaction isn't the only problem arising from not attending school. Its also about gaining perspective and learning via social interaction. In a classroom, there are about 30 kids, all who can provide input, and different perspectives on a certain topic. And this also is true of the teacher. When a child learns from a parent, who, lets say, have intensely strong right-winged views, the child won't question his parents, and won't have any other adult authority to input a different perspective for the child to consider. Of course, the child could have a coach or an uncle, but for most children, they hold their most intellectual and probing conversations with two adults they respect: Their teacher and their parent. If their parent is both, or if the child is taught via a program (Which mean they will still revert to their parents for such conversations) then the child is only exposed to one perspective, and no discussion is provided to help the child challenge these views and decide for themself what they personally believe. Its almost as if the children who are home-schooled have lost, not free will per se, but they are less exposed to different perspectives, whereas, in a school, a child is exposed to multiple ones. I learned this recently in my tutorials at Uni, where the class frequently held deep discussions, and we all learned from each other. The entire process of discussion in a classroom setting is a form of learning, rather than just a lecture from an online program or a one-sided parent. It broadens the horizon of the child, making them more aware, open-minded, and on the whole, more enlightened.

And learning via questioning is the final arguement I would like to address. Children, humans in fact, are inquisitive by nature, and when someone asks a question, and are either confirmed or corrected, they learn from it. When home-schooled, whether it be by a parent, private tutor, or program, their is always a larger margin for error. Parents and private tutors, even if they are qualified teachers, cannot address the inquiries of their students in every subject the child is learning, there will always be mistakes. And when learning via a home-schooling program, I personally don't believe children will retain things as well from asking a program or wikipedia their question. On the other hand, in a school, children ask questions to teachers who have all gone through 8 years of university in a specific field and they know how to answer the majority of questions. I'm not saying they'll know everything, but there will be much less of a chance of the child recieving a false answer/no answer at all.

So on the whole, unless the child is severely autistic or has some other social/mental condition, there should be no excuse for home-schooling.
 
Last edited:

kami

An iron homily
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
4,265
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Yeah but youre anti-family, anti-birth, anti-life leftist pinko etcetera
I can be a bit of an anarchist sometimes. :eek:
Yes, home schooling should be illegal, unless in very special circumstances such as a child's mental/social condition.

Firstly, home-schooling lowers the social abilities of the children enrolled in its courses. When a child does not go to school and does not interact with children their age, their social development is hindered. I'm not saying home-schoold children have no social interaction, I'm just saying its obvious that they have much less (and in some cases, none at all) than the children who go to school and learn in a classroom surrounded by peers. There are numerous things that home-schooled children can do to achieve social interaction (Sports, camps, scouts) but on the whole, none of these activities compare to an actual school setting. This lack of social interaction affects the children's ability to make friends and relate to people later in life, eventually becoming a liability.

And the lack of social interaction isn't the only problem arising from not attending school. Its also about gaining perspective and learning via social interaction. In a classroom, there are about 30 kids, all who can provide input, and different perspectives on a certain topic. And this also is true of the teacher. When a child learns from a parent, who, lets say, have intensely strong right-winged views, the child won't question his parents, and won't have any other adult authority to input a different perspective for the child to consider. Of course, the child could have a coach or an uncle, but for most children, they hold their most intellectual and probing conversations with two adults they respect: Their teacher and their parent. If their parent is both, or if the child is taught via a program (Which mean they will still revert to their parents for such conversations) then the child is only exposed to one perspective, and no discussion is provided to help the child challenge these views and decide for themself what they personally believe. Its almost as if the children who are home-schooled have lost, not free will per se, but they are less exposed to different perspectives, whereas, in a school, a child is exposed to multiple ones. I learned this recently in my tutorials at Uni, where the class frequently held deep discussions, and we all learned from each other. The entire process of discussion in a classroom setting is a form of learning, rather than just a lecture from an online program or a one-sided parent. It broadens the horizon of the child, making them more aware, open-minded, and on the whole, more enlightened.

And learning via questioning is the final arguement I would like to address. Children, humans in fact, are inquisitive by nature, and when someone asks a question, and are either confirmed or corrected, they learn from it. When home-schooled, whether it be by a parent, private tutor, or program, their is always a larger margin for error. Parents and private tutors, even if they are qualified teachers, cannot address the inquiries of their students in every subject the child is learning, there will always be mistakes. And when learning via a home-schooling program, I personally don't believe children will retain things as well from asking a program or wikipedia their question. On the other hand, in a school, children ask questions to teachers who have all gone through 8 years of university in a specific field and they know how to answer the majority of questions. I'm not saying they'll know everything, but there will be much less of a chance of the child recieving a false answer/no answer at all.

So on the whole, unless the child is severely autistic or has some other social/mental condition, there should be no excuse for home-schooling.
The problem here is that you're equating adult methods of learning with infant learning. Typically in a university setting everyone will be capable of self-directed research, background knowledge of specific areas and some level of critical thinking in a -small- class. This is nothing like a school environment where no child has any outside knowledge to bring to the table and lacks critical thinking skills - the kind of 'discussions' you get are the ones where the kids put their hands up and eventually one of them gets the answer to the question (which is generally black and white). Teachers often in fact have to make efforts to stop children from frivolously discussing things with each other because it distracts from their work. So yeah, no, they aren't learning more from other kids in a class environment.

I agree with you about the socialisation thing in part but it's not so black and white. There are ALOT of wallflowers out there who begin to develop these socially withdrawn tendencies because of the pack-like environment in a school (which were designed based on similar principles to prisons, amusingly) and the inability of a teacher, who could have almost 40 kids in their class, to compensate for this. It's arguable that a parent, if they had the right skill set, may be more able to look after their child and develop them socially with a clever arrangement of extra-curricular activities.

You point about qualification and teaching skill can also be compensated with the fact that a teacher has to deal with a large group of children - they won't all receive the benefit of a teacher's breadth of knowledge and this can be very problematic for either gifted students or stupid ones. A parent on the other hand can address these problems specifically and pick up on errors (if they aren't a numb brained fuck). Also, teachers don't train 'eight years'. A teacher can receive a minimum of 3 years training to be qualified and the maximum needed (to start at the highest threshold of entry pay) is 5 years, of which only 4 or 5 subjects at uni need to be used on their teaching area if they do secondary.
 

SylviaB

Just Bee Yourself 🐝
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,894
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
Should be legal, freedom and all that jazz.

However, universities should also be free to reject applicants simply on the basis that they were home schooled.
 

Serius

Beyond Godlike
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Messages
3,123
Location
Wollongong
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Should be legal, freedom and all that jazz.

However, universities should also be free to reject applicants simply on the basis that they were home schooled.
Dont they allready? i have yet to see a homeschooled kid at uni, i think they just dont get good enough marks to get in.
 

MaNiElla

Active Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
1,853
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Interesting thread...I'd totally go through it all if i had any freakin time on my hands instead of reading random posts >.<
 

SylviaB

Just Bee Yourself 🐝
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
6,894
Location
Lidcombe
Gender
Female
HSC
2021
Dont they allready? i have yet to see a homeschooled kid at uni, i think they just dont get good enough marks to get in.

Yeah probably, but if homeschooling continues to become popular you can just see "anti-discrimination" bullshit laws being passed.
 

youngminii

Banned
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
2,083
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
I'd rather have been home schooled than go to an actual school. I learn close to nothing from my shitty teachers and it just takes up my time.
For those of you using the 'qualified teacher' bullshit as an argument, ask yourself: why do so many people have tutors? Because their teachers aren't as good as the tutors. My point is, it's not like being a qualified teacher actually means you're good at teaching.
 

AsyLum

Premium Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
15,899
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
The teaching qualification is hardly a 'worthy' tag to be perfectly honest, I haven't really learnt anything I didn't already know about teaching, nor has it given me anything to truly equip me for a classroom setting. For the most part its a social concept that one person is considered an 'expert' in a field, and not someone else.

I think there are deficiencies in home schooling, but at the same time there are deficiencies in public schooling, and private schooling etc. The problem is that to advance from secondary to tertiary level education places a high bias upon being enrolled within a normal institution because for most courses life experience or extra-curricular activities aren't taken into account when analysing potential candidates, they just look at your UAI/ATAR scores.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
1,290
Location
coordinates: bookshop
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2008
I speak having had a quite diverse education myself - inclusive of public schools, catholic schools, a very small (<35 students in the entire school) fundamentalist christian school, and a steiner school - which spans regional, rural and suburban areas.

My mother is also a teacher.

Many schools have a fairly small cross-section of the greater Australian community. But that can be explained by recognising the immediate community generally isn't that diverse. This is due to a number of factors: housing prices, environment, work and study opportunities, the existing community attracts similar individuals, etc. Beyond this, private education only has students whose parents can afford and are willing to fork out for it (excepting those on scholarship).

I think that children's education should definitely be supported by the parents - my mother read with me as a child, and she helped me learn timetables. People underestimate the influence of the parents in a child's attitude to school. From my mother's experience as a teacher in a school with a minority of caucasian students, and my own in another, cultural divides become apparent.

If a child's cultural upbringing doesn't value education, it's nigh impossible to teach them effectively. I think too much blame is put on the teachers, especially those like my mother, who teach in problem schools. I know that many young teachers are rubbish, but those who continue to try to impart knowledge despite cultural and linguistic divides should be admired.


Okay, so I went off on a tangent.

Basically, I think that parents should support their children's education, but not necessarily take the reins. However, homeschooling has it's place, especially where children cannot attend normal, constant schooling.
 

*TRUE*

Tiny dancer
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
1,654
Location
Couch
Gender
Female
HSC
N/A
Dont they allready? i have yet to see a homeschooled kid at uni, i think they just dont get good enough marks to get in.
I personally know six.
EDIT: Obviously any person who is without an appropriate educational level should be rejected from University.
There are legitimate ways for homeschoolers to attain the HSC - I'm unsure of other pathways but I believe they certainly exist.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top