When is it a baby? (2 Viewers)

[HumanDichotomy]

Hey guys.

Just wondering your opinions on when a fetus becomes a baby? When should/shouldn't we abort a pregnancy?

Interesting case, which was what started me thinking about this in the first place...

I was talking to my school chaplain today and he was telling me about a friend of his who had to decide whether or not to give an abortion to a woman who was 36 weeks pregnant. And she was suicidal. So obviously if he'd left her, there was a strong possibility that she would kill herself *and* the baby. So he ended up doing the abortion. And then he asked me when I thought a baby became a baby. And I realised I didn't really have an answer. I mean I'm 'pro-choice' as it were, but that doesn't mean I'm 'anti-life.'

So what do you think about this situation and abortion in general?

 

[Worship_BBJ]

bro, its a baby when its born. before that its a paresite

 

[cookkii]

when it starts thinking for itself, then it can be classified as lliving.

 

[SnowFox]

bro, its a baby when its born. before that its a paresite

Symbiotic Creature.

 

[spyro14]

Overall view is that you shouldn't.

Assuming it was legal anyway then I would have to say any day before its due date, Early or late is the same to me, it's still just killing a baby whenever you do it.

 

[thisnameistaken]

i recon when it pops out of the mother

some believe when the sperm enters the egg,
some recon after 40 days on conception

:/

 

[Worship_BBJ]

when it starts thinking for itself, then it can be classified as lliving.

stfu, are you a doctor?

 

[Worship_BBJ]

i recon when it pops out of the mother

some believe when the sperm enters the egg,
some recon after 40 days on conception

:/

you're a fucking idiot, you're mum shouldve swallowed you

 

[Jeee]

When bone and brain begin to develop.

True story.

 

[cookkii]

well, maybe not

i guess, when its still safe for the mother.

and definaately not after 5 months =]

 

[whatashotbyseve]

When your sperm does it business. None of this wait till its born shit.

 

[SnowFox]

you're a fucking idiot, you're mum shouldve swallowed you

Stop trolling BBJ.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

What about if it has a problem?

 

[Kwayera]

Well medically, it's still a foetus, from 8 weeks to right up until the moment it's born.

When it comes to the point of "what stage does abortion become inappropriate?", while it's been done to death, I think the consensus in the medical community is 22-28 weeks, after which thalamic connections in the brain form (which mediates sensory input).

A foetus is considered full-term (a baby, I suppose) between 35-40 weeks, when it can reliably survive outside the womb.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

So if you terminate it after then, should it be considered murder?

 

[whatashotbyseve]

I don't anyone can consider abortion murder. However, those that do abort are undoubtedly tormented over the decision for the rest of their lives I would assume in most cases.

 

[Kwayera]

Well, it's funny. Kick a pregnant lady in the stomach and cause a miscarriage, and it can be considered murder; abort, at any stage, and it may not be considered murder.

An interesting dichotomy that I think needs to be answered, regarding murder, the definition of suffering, and whether or not the killing of something that does not have the capacity to be considered human any way other than biologically (i.e. given limited mental and physical capacities of foeti, and its inability to process sensory input, including pain, before a certain point).

I personally haven't been able to answer this question, though I lean towards calling abortion after ~28 weeks murder, except in circumstances in which the mother's life is in danger or it is fatally deformed (another dichotomy. Sigh).

 

[JonathanM]

Symbiotic Creature.

Hardly smbiotic. What does the mother gain physically, or even mentally from the foetus?

 

[Kwayera]

No, he's right. Parasitism is a form of symbiosis.

You're thinking of mutualistic symbiosis, where both organisms benefit. Note that "symbiosis" refers simply to interactions between organisms, generally of different species.

 

[emmcyclopedia]

This is a question that has plagued me a lot lately, as I want to get into medicine @ UNCLE in '09. I believe one of the few procedures I could never do is abortion. I don't think I could live with that on my conscience. Yeah, so for me it's a baby at conception.

What happens if a mother wants an abortion but the father doesn't? Does he have the right to protest???

Hardly smbiotic. What does the mother gain physically, or even mentally from the foetus?

Also, just a minor technicality here: many scientists regard symbiotic relationships as being any close relationship between two species, not merely one which is mutually beneficial - commensalism and parasitism are examples of such non-advantageous symbionts. Nevertheless, I must agree with you that a maternal relationship can't really be considered symbiotic, my reasoning instead being that the baby is of the same species as mum (obviously!).
While pregnancy is a very mentally and physically taxing experience, it also comes with great joy and many benefits =)