When is it a baby? (2 Viewers)

[emmcyclopedia]

Totally contradicts what you said earlier:



Care to make up your mind?

The health of an individual's reproductive organs are not indicative of their overall health. I'm sorry if I didn't distinguish clearly enough between the two.

 

[zombie omie jay]

And oxytocin can also be released when cuddling your partner, having an orgasm, etc.



Um, please provide a source for this statement.

science

also common sense

 

[black_kat_meow]

science

also common sense

Shut up, Shane!

 

[black_kat_meow]

The health of an individual's reproductive organs are not indicative of their overall health. I'm sorry if I didn't distinguish clearly enough between the two.

But Kway just gave you a source suggesting that multiple pregancies can have a detrimental effect on the reproductive system as well.

 

[emmcyclopedia]

I wouldn't say the possible emotional fufillment gained from having children is what ensures the continuation of the human race. Have you not heard of biological urges? or do you think animals reproduce for their emotional wellbeing?

Yeah, I do agree with you. Sex is one thing, but making the choice to have a child - relating back to the topic of abortion, and making the choice of keeping an unborn child - is more what I am meaning here. And yes, I think people do reproduce to fulfil a sense of purpose and emotional wellbeing.

 

[emmcyclopedia]

But Kway just gave you a source suggesting that multiple pregancies can have a detrimental effect on the reproductive system as well.

Like I said before - the point I am making is not that pregnancy has fantastic benefits which negate the possibility for ill-health - all I am trying to say is that while there are (like you said) mostly bad things which happen to the body, there are some biological processes, such as oxytocin and temporarily ceased menstruation, which are of benefit. Whether or not these are outweighed by other issues isn't what I was trying to assess, as I am not yet qualified to make such vast overall judgements. There are benefits, both emotional and physical. But with this comes many complications like kwayera has shown us, and what I am saying should not be considered as overriding other elements of pregnancy, merely supplementary information that among the bad there is some good, despite how insignificant it may seem to some.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

I wouldn't say the possible emotional fufillment gained from having children is what ensures the continuation of the human race. Have you not heard of biological urges? or do you think animals reproduce for their emotional wellbeing?

biological urges manifesting themselves in other urges. common philosophy claptrap. annoys the heckarooni out of me.

---

if you're gonna have sex, you gotta realise that you might have a baby. if you take the risk, you were informed, and you get stuck with one, then tough cheese. tough the pregnancy out and stop being a feminist cunt.

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

Like I said before - the point I am making is not that pregnancy has fantastic benefits which negate the possibility for ill-health - all I am trying to say is that while there are (like you said) mostly bad things which happen to the body, there are some biological processes, such as oxytocin and temporarily ceased menstruation, which are of benefit. Whether or not these are outweighed by other issues isn't what I was trying to assess, as I am not yet qualified to make such vast overall judgements. There are benefits, both emotional and physical. But with this comes many complications like kwayera has shown us, and what I am saying should not be considered as overriding other elements of pregnancy, merely supplementary information that among the bad there is some good, despite how insignificant it may seem to some.

on average, a pause in menstruation, imho, is probably not any better than 9 months of some dirty foetus, followed by immense pain, and then 18 or so years of a dependant kid

IM ALL FOR ABORTION GUYS. IVE CHANGED MY OPINION. WATCH ME FLY

 

[SashatheMan]

At 18

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

i think that if you permit abortion, then you also permit;

infanticide
murder of vegetables
murder of the elderly
murder of the crippled
murder of the race you dislike
murder of the neighbour you dislike
murder of religion

etc

 

[emmcyclopedia]

i think that if you permit abortion, then you also permit;

infanticide
murder of vegetables
murder of the elderly
murder of the crippled
murder of the race you dislike
murder of the neighbour you dislike
murder of religion

etc

LOL...I like your conviction, though perhaps not your principles.

you know you can't kill a vegetable, only the plant =) i think there's some thing called fruitarianism (or something like that?) where people only eat food after it has fallen off a plant so as not to hurt the plant =P i thought that was cute

 

[mcflystargirl]

conception, that is when it is a human at least anyway, or i a human life

 

[HumanDichotomy]

i think that if you permit abortion, then you also permit murder of vegetables

What he's talking about here is people who are considered 'vegetables', i.e. people without higher level brain functions, not actual vegetables.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Interesting case, which was what started me thinking about this in the first place...

I was talking to my school chaplain today and he was telling me about a friend of his who had to decide whether or not to give an abortion to a woman who was 36 weeks pregnant. And she was suicidal. So obviously if he'd left her, there was a strong possibility that she would kill herself *and* the baby. So he ended up doing the abortion. And then he asked me when I thought a baby became a baby. And I realised I didn't really have an answer. I mean I'm 'pro-choice' as it were, but that doesn't mean I'm 'anti-life.'

 

[Sarebs]

I think it's a baby when it cries. I heard once that they do late-term abortions in China, and some of the babies come out crying, and then they kill them. Although I have no idea at what stage a baby does cry.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Yeah hadn't thought of the crying thing. Wow...how fucked is that?

 

[Ben Netanyahu]

I think it's a baby when it cries. I heard once that they do late-term abortions in China, and some of the babies come out crying, and then they kill them. Although I have no idea at what stage a baby does cry.

what the fuck? what the fuck fucking difference does it matter if china kills them when they cry or not?! killing a crying baby and a 8month old foetus is the same bloody thing

 

[redfield]

I think somoeone mentioned common sense a little while ago. People keep throwing specific dates around (such as 40 days, 3 months, 5 months, etc) at which a 'foetus' becomes human. Wouldn't it be common sense to ask WHY it doesn't become human at the point of conception? I don't understand why people don't use basic logic here: the offspring of a dog is a dog no matter the point at which it begins to form; so to is the offspring of a cat is a cat... so wouldn't that suggest that a human will always be a human no matter what stage of growth is?

i think someone also previously mentioned about what if 'it' (i.e. the baby) has something wrong with 'it'. well, if you look at the example of say an apple, it can be bruised, cut-in-half, mashed up or still on the tree... but it still is an apple. so, using that logic, wouldn't a human, despite any 'defects' it might have, still be a human and deserve the same rights that any other human is given (specifically the right to life)?

a bit of food for thought there...

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Yeah...interesting. + rep.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

I think somoeone mentioned common sense a little while ago. People keep throwing specific dates around (such as 40 days, 3 months, 5 months, etc) at which a 'foetus' becomes human. Wouldn't it be common sense to ask WHY it doesn't become human at the point of conception? I don't understand why people don't use basic logic here: the offspring of a dog is a dog no matter the point at which it begins to form; so to is the offspring of a cat is a cat... so wouldn't that suggest that a human will always be a human no matter what stage of growth is?

i think someone also previously mentioned about what if 'it' (i.e. the baby) has something wrong with 'it'. well, if you look at the example of say an apple, it can be bruised, cut-in-half, mashed up or still on the tree... but it still is an apple. so, using that logic, wouldn't a human, despite any 'defects' it might have, still be a human and deserve the same rights that any other human is given (specifically the right to life)?

a bit of food for thought there...

What you're saying kinda raises the question of 'human' vs. 'person'.