Atheism! (4 Viewers)

[Cookie182]

I can believe that the sun will rise again tomorrow, but what good is it if i just sit on my arse and watch TV all day?
[/URL]

David Hume would challenge the logical validity of your induction

 

[theism]

David Hume would challenge the logical validity of your induction

mmm, yeah not the best example haha.
but it makes sense i guess..

the UN can believe that human induced climate change (global warming) is occuring, yet do nothing.

 

[Tulipa]

that you dont need to adhere completely to an inherently flawed institution in order to live virtuously.

well, at least, that's what i got from it.

That too. I found it interesting because my parents and my brothers believe in God but only my mom has any kind of interaction with the church, which is to say that she has some prayer group once a month with other mothers.

And theism, I've thought about this a lot over the past thirteen or so years. I've had long-winded discussions with family, friends and randoms about it and my ideas have never really changed. If anything, these discussions strengthened my own stance. You're not going to convert me.

 

[MissGiggles]

Theism, omnipresent=everywhere (including places like your theory about hell), one of the most important teachings about God. His presence can't just dissappear in this place you've created. But i like how creative your vision is

 

[missanonymous7]

Salvation has many components:

1. saved by grace – Rom. 3:23,24; Titus 2:11; Eph 2:5,8
2. saved by faith – Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8; I Peter 1:9
3. saved by confession – Rom. 10:10; I John 1:9; James 5:16
4. saved by repentance – Luke 13:3; II Cor. 7:10; II Peter 3:9
5. saved by baptism – Mark 16:16; John 3:5; I Peter 3:21
6. saved by the Holy Ghost – John 3:5; Rom. 8:9; Eph. 1:13,14
7. saved by endurance – II Tim. 2:10; James 1:12; Heb. 3:6
​

Are you implying that, in order to 'get into heaven', all seven of those points are compulsory?

 

[theism]

Are you implying that, in order to 'get into heaven', all seven of those points are compulsory?

I am just saying salvation is an ongoing process.

what do you think?
are all those '7' compulsory?

Theism, omnipresent=everywhere (including places like your theory about hell), one of the most important teachings about God. His presence can't just dissappear in this place you've created. But i like how creative your vision is

Yeah i know what omnipresent means,
wasn't sure to what it implied.
but i presume it was about hell?

when i meant hell is a place without God,
i meant that hell does not have the things of God..
that is, the good things of God.

hope, love, etc

 

[missanonymous7]

I am just saying salvation is an ongoing process.

what do you think?
are all those '7' compulsory?

OK cool. Just clarifying. I would argue that no, you don't necessarily need all of what you listed to 'get into heaven' (eg, baptism has very little to do with it, imo.)

 

[theism]

OK cool. Just clarifying. I would argue that no, you don't necessarily need all of what you listed to 'get into heaven' (eg, baptism has very little to do with it, imo.)

yeah the water baptism.
especially with the catholic church,
with little babies getting baptised..
like that counts for anything.

i believe the baptism of the holy spirit is pretty important though.

so which other ones arn't necessary?

 

[dux&src]

LOL. You're correct. It's ignorance.
EDIT: and as Omie Jay puts it, naughty.
I iz very naughty.

Is you now?

 

[NCB619]

you're just going through the motions of Christianity.
are you bored in your christian walk?
you need to be born again.

i'll talk from my own experience
i was raised in a christian family,
although i went to church my whole life, i considered myself a christian.
however in the last few years, (particularly the last few months, as i've been backsliding, but have been getting into the word (bible) i've realised i was NOT a christian back then..)

they say that 40% of Australians identify themselves as christians, yet only 8% regularly attend church.
those '40%' are not all true believers..

Albert Camus, the famous atheistic existentialist philosopher, once said
'the only question modern man has to answer for himself, is why not kill myself?'
now i'm not telling you to kill yourself,
but to begin to reason why you are living.
what do you live for?
material goods? wealth?

they say that the despair of atheism often leads to theism eventually..

It's actually 68.9 % IIRC...but yeah, you kinda hit the nail on the head.

 

[MissGiggles]

But Theism, God ignoring anyone goes completely against Church teachings. And where does the Devil fit in? You can't ignore Jesus' forty days in the desert being tempted by the Devil along with all the other references.

 

[theism]

But Theism, God ignoring anyone goes completely against Church teachings. And where does the Devil fit in? You can't ignore Jesus' forty days in the desert being tempted by the Devil along with all the other references.

I don't quite follow what you are talking about

God ignoring who?

where does the devil fit into where?

Yes the devil tried to tempt Jesus in the desert..
matthew 4:1-11

 

[Cookie182]

?

What are you talking about?


where does the devil fit into where?

Yes the devil tried to tempt Jesus in the dessert, went to the mountains, tested him etc.

How can a "perfect" entity be tempted?

 

[Iron]

mmm tempting dessert

 

[theism]

How can a "perfect" entity be tempted?

great question.
Hebrews 2 - Passage�Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com

you know it's really funny.
i was actually reading this chapter today, just an hour ago.

hence why i knew this chapter off the top of my head..

woww.

 

[theism]

mmm tempting dessert

nom nom nom nom

 

[MissGiggles]

How can a "perfect" entity be tempted?

that trial is supposed to be proof of how good he is. Jesus is fully human as well as fully divine (makes no sense to me but hey its not my beliefs we're talking about) and so he is the perfect human because he didn't give in.

I don't quite follow what you are talking about

God ignoring who?

where does the devil fit into where?

Yes the devil tried to tempt Jesus in the desert..
matthew 4:1-11

i'm sorry i can never seem to make myself clear. i'm a little sleep deprived. you were talking about a place where God just ignores people who have no interest in his way of life (if logically He is present, then He must be making a conscious effort not to communicate with or help those people). this contradicts the Church's teaching of God not turning away from anyone.

and if you have this neither happy nor miserable place away from any entity's interest, then what about the Devil? he is supposed to be in charge of hell, making people attone for their sins. if there is no attonement, then the Devil becomes redundant.

Judgement becomes unnecessary, and so Jesus' role as judge on humanity's final day is redundant as well (as spelt out in the Nicene Creed: "He will come again to judge the living and the dead.")

 

[theism]

i'm sorry i can never seem to make myself clear. i'm a little sleep deprived. you were talking about a place where God just ignores people who have no interest in his way of life (if logically He is present, then He must be making a conscious effort not to communicate with or help those people). this contradicts the Church's teaching of God not turning away from anyone.

You are right in the regard that God will draw near, to those who draw near to him.
That God loves each and everyone.

but it is not God that turns away from us, but rather we that turn away from him.

Isaiah 59:2 (New International Version)


2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.

i mean, i always hear this from people..
'God never answered my prayers'..
i always think to myself.. errr.. because you kept sinning, and did not repent??'

one more point i would like to make is this..

it's in James 4:8 that it says (and this is where the church gets it's quote from)..

'draw near to God.. and he will draw near to you'
now that is a promise...
but many many churches, miss out on something that's within the same sentence. (verse)

it goes on to say.. "Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world. 9 Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief. Let there be sadness instead of laughter, and gloom instead of joy. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up in honor."

right now in my christian walk,
i am trying to 'wash my hands' of sin.
to get the fear of the Lord.

because i was always into the 'God's grace will cover my sin'.. blah... you know?
but i've been enlightened on the necessity for the fear of the Lord.

and if you have this neither happy nor miserable place away from any entity's interest, then what about the Devil? he is supposed to be in charge of hell, making people attone for their sins. if there is no attonement, then the Devil becomes redundant.

wooahhh.. okay stop right there.
you seem to understand the devil as being the 'ruler of hell'.
he is NOT the ruler of hell.. just like those who rejected God, satan will be sent to hell.

currently, Satan is still on earth, and has been since he was cast down from heaven ( Isaiah 14:12)

it is in the last days, (the great tribulation, rapture, judgement, that satan after the 1000 reign of Christ, then the final battle, that satan is sent to hell.. not to 'rule over it' but to " be thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:7-10

I think this is one of satan's greatest 'deceivements' so to speak.
he's made people (and popular culture) to believe that he's the 'ruler of hell'..

the bible talks about him being the deceiver,
the thief who's come to steal, kill and destory.

Judgement becomes unnecessary, and so Jesus' role as judge on humanity's final day is redundant as well (as spelt out in the Nicene Creed: "He will come again to judge the living and the dead.")

how is it that judgment is unnecessary?

I'm sorry to say this, and please understand that i am not being callous,
but the teachings of your church don't seem to be scripture based..

 

[Iron]

HeyTheism!

 

[MissGiggles]

"your" Church? i'm quoting what i've learnt through 12 years of intense religion lessons and the readings and...homilies, is it called?.....when i used to be religious and go to church. i'm kinda arguing with you coz i'm running out of things to do around the house and you seem to be a very intelligent person. unlike all the idiots at school who lie about their faith coz they don't like the public system.

i'm in the catholic system coz i wanted to stay with my friends and i do well in religion. also my mum weny to the catholic schools here, and her mum, and her mum.....ect.

i'm out of arguments so unless someone wants to bring up creationism vs evolution (on which there are plenty of anti creationism books on our bookshelf) i am going to shut up