Marriage - really the 'best fit'? (2 Viewers)

[Iron]

Natural in the true sense, you blinded beggars. Natural as in God-intended. As natural as the fact of One jelous God.

I do not doubt that evil offers significant temptation away from this natural truth - a common fleshy temptation into which many fall - but I do deny that polygamy and/or multiple partners is any sustaining path to personal happiness or stability for children

 

[SylviaB]

We are monogamous by nature.

Lrn 2 biology.

 

[Cookie182]

An interesting thought I have been having all night, is slightly nihilistic.

If we accept that "morality" is simply a contingent term within an evoltuionary framework, i.e. to describe how we have adopted common behavioural standards to live by over time, perhaps asking questions about morality beyond that are invalidated.

That is to say, just because we can ask is this right etc does not mean an answer is entitled. Perhaps oughts don't exist beyond the framework decides. If you concede this, those elemental why questions become irrelevant.

 

[Cookie182]

Natural in the true sense, you blinded beggars. Natural as in God-intended. As natural as the fact of One jelous God.

I do not doubt that evil offers significant temptation away from this natural truth - a common fleshy temptation into which many fall - but I do deny that polygamy and/or multiple partners is any sustaining path to personal happiness or stability for children

Seriously though, you know the majority in the discussion do not believe in this god hypothesis. Frame your response within the commonality of what we all know is true, science.

Noting, stability of children was not an issue 100 000 yrs ago. Surviving and simply having children was the issue. Sure, we have evolved to the point now where our lives are magnificent- that is, our life span is excellent and we know longer face the dangers of the savana. Taking that in mind, our attraction circuitry has not. Its still stuck how it was 100 000 yrs ago- evolution is slow.

Ask yourself, are girls still attracted to the "masculine guys"?

 

[Iron]

I refuse. You deny an entire moral realm upon which our whole life is judged; the most important reality of our existance

 

[yoddle]

An interesting thought I have been having all night, is slightly nihilistic.

If we accept that "morality" is simply a contingent term within an evoltuionary framework, i.e. to describe how we have adopted common behavioural standards to live by over time, perhaps asking questions about morality beyond that are invalidated.

That is to say, just because we can ask is this right etc does not mean an answer is entitled. Perhaps oughts don't exist beyond the framework decides. If you concede this, those elemental why questions become irrelevant.

That's very PoMo. But interesting.

Iron can say what he likes, you can choose whether or not to respond.

 

[Cookie182]

actually the main reason for divorce is money. which is a whole other issue so we will leave it at that.

other than that i agree with iron. humans are innately monogomous, which i suppose ensures the propogation of the species. people cheat because they have underlying issues and as long as you have deep seeded emotional issues you shouldn't be in a relationship. how are you meant to give yourself to another person if you don't even know who you are/aren't happy with yourself.

The opposite.

The propogation of the species is better served when men spread their sperm around.

 

[Cookie182]

That's very PoMo. But interesting.

Iron can say what he likes, you can choose whether or not to respond.

Iron knows deep down that his position has serious philosophical problems.

I've yet to meet a theist who can answer any substantial questioning.

Its a wrong position which will be slowly weeded out of existence. IMO the theory of memetics demonstrates how religion spreads. Like all systems, it is in constant competition and will eventually die. The question is what rate of will this occur. Like a virus, it feeds on the young...

 

[yoddle]

actually the main reason for divorce is money. which is a whole other issue so we will leave it at that.

other than that i agree with iron. humans are innately monogomous, which i suppose ensures the propogation of the species. people cheat because they have underlying issues and as long as you have deep seeded emotional issues you shouldn't be in a relationship. how are you meant to give yourself to another person if you don't even know who you are/aren't happy with yourself.

Um. So say I have body image problems or was molested my uncle - I should suppress all feelings of love for the sake of ... the traditional view on relationships?

 

[Iron]

Iron knows deep down that his position has serious philosophical problems.

No theist can argue with me.

Lol i've had better m8 /puffs cigar
But there's no point arguing an atheist, is there? Without making concessions about God, there's no where for us to go except gool ol fashnd mud wrasslin

 

[Cookie182]

I refuse. You deny an entire moral realm upon which our whole life is judged; the most important reality of our existance

Yes, yes I do.

You can't prove to me morality actually exists beyond the very framework of evolution.

 

[Iron]

And I can never prove this to you. Between you and your maker, buddyboy
The rest is fightclub

 

[Cookie182]

Lol i've had better m8 /puffs cigar
But there's no point arguing an atheist, is there? Without making concessions about God, there's no where for us to go except gool ol fashnd mud wrasslin

Well, as soon as make you make a positivistic claim about this entity, you unfortunately do the work of making the existence of the entity very improbable.

Like, most Christians will argue for I.D. (something I vehemntly oppose and for good reason).

At best, this arrives at deism.

Huge leap to then "prove" the Christian paradigm. That is, throw all these qualities of emotion (love, jealousy etc) at this entity, to make the assumption it cares about its creation, to make the even more egoic assumption that it will offer YOU life after your natural life, to make the ludicrous assumption that it has instilled an aboslute morality within the universe....


You just can't derive at it. If we put religion in court, we would throw it out quick smart. Its false beyond any reasonable doubt and you know it. That debates done

 

[Silver Persian]

Yes, yes I do.

You can't prove to me morality actually exists beyond the very framework of evolution.

Well, I think it would be silly to take it for granted that whatever evolution has supposedly programmed us to do is the right thing to do. As Hannah Arendt said, approximately, the best way to combat evil is to encourage critical thought;

 

[Cookie182]

Well, I think it would be silly to take it for granted that whatever evolution has supposedly programmed us to do is the right thing to do. As Hannah Arendt said, approximately, the best way to combat evil is to encourage critical thought;

What is right?

 

[yoddle]

i'm not trying to start an argument, i'm just saying that if you're psychologically damaged it is difficult to be in a relationship.

say you WERE molested by your uncle, do you really think that you would be 100% fine and trusting of men? like thats why there are all those studies on women who have been raped and how it has affected their relationships with men

Well you did say that people who are a little fucked up "shouldn't" be in a relationship, not that "it would be difficult".

But anyways.

My point is, is that people who have had a traumatic experience in their life, or have some deep personal problems, should be trying to resolve them and get on with living a life that they want to lead, which would most likely involve having lots of fun and amazing times with someone they love. This can greatly help better that person. Moreover, I think you'll be stretched to find someone who doesn't have some kind of deep-seated problem. We are human.

 

[Iron]

I no longer feel any burden to prove it, tbh. I'm at peace with letting you rot in hell, Cookie.
You offer these constant challenges to me, as if i'm God and can perform miracles to satisfy you (with the obvious suggesting that i'm not and cant). I'm just one of His many creations. No man can bring another to God; he has to bring himself.

By all means dont bring yourself though and continue your masturbation with the atheist league

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Can you guys either start an Iron vs HD bicker thread or keep discussing marriage please.

But incidentally, gays rock.

Sorry. And yes, hell yeah we do.

 

[Silver Persian]

What is right?

I don't know. Let's have a discussion about it, and make an informed choice, rather than assuming that whatever evolution has programmed us to do is the best we can do in terms of morality.

 

[banco55]

Um. So say I have body image problems or was molested my uncle - I should suppress all feelings of love for the sake of ... the traditional view on relationships?

No but if you marry someone who was molested the odds are really against you having a happy and long lasting marriage. It's like if you meet someone who is bipolar and marry them and are then surprised that it ends in divorce.