Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[Cookie182]

Help me Cookie i'm trapped. Take me to ur secular world. Show me the pleasures of the secular flesh

Here brother,

YouTube - The Evolution of Religions

 

[Iron]

Oh, cmon baby dont make me wear a youtube. I'm clean i promise

 

[Cookie182]

Oh, cmon baby dont make me wear a youtube. I'm clean i promise

I know its a hard step, but don't fear education

 

[Iron]

Last time i nibble your bait you greasy wog bastard

 

[Cookie182]

Last time i nibble your bait you greasy wog bastard

TBH though, this is the ignorance many speak of. I can not understand why, if you truly are about "seeking truth" your afraid to look at other perspectives. I've read your sources and made a decision. How can the world ever improve if people won't even accept there is several arguments for issues. Watch the video if you truly are interested in god.

Note, the focus is independent of any given religion's "truth" value. Sure, as a Christian you won't like the fact that your religion has "evolved", generally through memetics to in most parts serve social functions such as explanatory, political, promotion of intra-society cohesion and morality etc, but ask yourself, do you find it offensive "studying" the other 19 000 or so religions objectively?

That is, you would have no problem reviewing what the aborignial dreamtime stories were, their "social function", nor hinduism or other ancient tribal religions. Understand the reasons why you reject every other proposition and you will begin to see why I just go that one step further and also reject yours.

Also, I'm trying to have a reasonable discussion for once, please at least do me the courtesy if you are going to reply, by writing something sensible, lacking your usual pseudo-cynicism/poetry.

 

[zazzy1234]

tbh though, this is the ignorance many speak of. I can not understand why, if you truly are about "seeking truth" your afraid to look at other perspectives. I've read your sources and made a decision. How can the world ever improve if people won't even accept there is several arguments for issues. Watch the video if you truly are interested in god.

Note, the focus is independent of any given religion's "truth" value. Sure, as a christian you won't like the fact that your religion has "evolved", generally through memetics to in most parts serve social functions such as explanatory, political, promotion of intra-society cohesion and morality etc, but ask yourself, do you find it offensive "studying" the other 19 000 or so religions objectively?

That is, you would have no problem reviewing what the aborignial dreamtime stories were, their "social function", nor hinduism or other ancient tribal religions. Understand the reasons why you reject every other proposition and you will begin to see why i just go that one step further and also reject yours.

Also, i'm trying to have a reasonable discussion for once, please at least do me the courtesy if you are going to reply, by writing something sensible, lacking your usual pseudo-cynicism/poetry.

truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue truuuuuuuuuuuuue and that is why i believe that prople call themselves atheist coz they r "scared and i repeat scared of seeking da truth. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kwayera]

You'll find that most atheists have sought truth from religion and found it sorely lacking.

Your analysis of atheist perspective also does not include those who have "deconverted" from a religion to atheism.

 

[Teclis]

Now ur getting it Teclis!

No not really

It's just relativism and pluralism are self contradicting, Universe unbinding paradox's that are nothing other than an excuse to not have any from of argument.

I mean quite simply:

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
Me: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Yes"
Me: "You're sure?"
Relativist: "yes I'm sure."
Me: "So... you are absolutely sure that there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: ... *fail face*

When something can't exist according to its own principals, it's about as epic fail as they come.


Hey Cookie, you live in Sydney? I'd love to have a good old debate over Coffee... Forums fail for reasoned, self-controlled debate

 

[Uncle]

i believe in einstein's theory of relativity not the scientologist's spout of bullcrap in exchange for money

 

[Cookie182]

truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue truuuuuuuuuuuuue and that is why i believe that prople call themselves atheist coz they r "scared and i repeat scared of seeking da truth. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are aware I was speaking about theists not reviewing anything outside their "revealed" text.

The logical fail in your statement is horrendous.

Atheism (well conscious and active) is a negative position- it is a reflection on the "truth value" presented by a religious hypothesis. Atheists are probably the most widely read of all. How do you come to reject something if you are "scared of it"- ie implying we know little about it? It's heavy reading darl,

Respectfully, on the evidence of your posts, I believe I have far more knowledge about Islam; both its history and its practices, then yourself.

May Allah awaken the fruits of knowledge within you and show you the path Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) revealed. For Allah is almighty!

 

[Cookie182]

No not really

It's just relativism and pluralism are self contradicting, Universe unbinding paradox's that are nothing other than an excuse to not have any from of argument.

I mean quite simply:

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
Me: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Yes"
Me: "You're sure?"
Relativist: "yes I'm sure."
Me: "So... you are absolutely sure that there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: ... *fail face*

When something can't exist according to its own principals, it's about as epic fail as they come.


Hey Cookie, you live in Sydney? I'd love to have a good old debate over Coffee... Forums fail for reasoned, self-controlled debate

Yeah, a good read is William Shaw's "Relativism"- basically shows its a logical fail.

I'll have to decline your generous offer, I'm geographically void. A warm pot of Earl Grey poured over a wealth of good debate with a random stranger at a corner-metro cafe is always delightful.

 

[moll.]

If there's one thing I've learnt over the many religious debates I've been involved in, it's to never say this or anything similar to it:

Respectfully, on the evidence of your posts, I believe I have far more knowledge about Islam; both its history and its practices, then yourself.

If they're either a dedicated troll or real, there's going to be hell to pay now.

 

[Enteebee]

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
Me: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Yes"
Me: "You're sure?"
Relativist: "yes I'm sure."
Me: "So... you are absolutely sure that there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: ... *fail face*

This is a common misunderstanding of the position of most serious 'relativists', as far as I understand anyway. A relativist does not mean to claim necessarily that there is NO absolute truths out there, somewhere, in the universe... merely that we lack the ability/knowledge to be certain about any claimed truth.

 

[Cookie182]

If there's one thing I've learnt over the many religious debates I've been involved in, it's to never say this or anything similar to it:



If they're either a dedicated troll or real, there's going to be hell to pay now.

Good thing it doesn't exist

But withstanding any intellectual snobbery, you have seen "Zazzy's" pinky-length vocabularly?

I certainly don't sit here in anguish awaiting an intellectual beating, albeit:

"fuckin' wit ma beliefs, its wat i think is da truth yo, 'iz u a muslim, den i think u should shut up..."

In anticipation I have one response-

Yo respect, ayyeeee

 

[Cookie182]

This is a common misunderstanding of the position of most serious 'relativists', as far as I understand anyway. A relativist does not mean to claim necessarily that there is NO absolute truths out there, somewhere, in the universe... merely that we lack of ability/knowledge to be certain about any truth.

True. It is a commonly held position among many academic philosophers, it would be foolish to think they haven't nutted through the most basic elements of its logic.

Do note, there lies quite a distinction between descriptive and normative relativism.

 

[moll.]

Good thing it doesn't exist

But withstanding any intellectual snobbery, you have seen "Zazzy's" pinky-length vocabularly?

I certainly don't sit here in anguish awaiting an intellectual beating, albeit:

"fuckin' wit ma beliefs, its wat i think is da truth yo, 'iz u a muslim, den i think u should shut up..."

In anticipation I have one response-

Yo respect, ayyeeee

Oh, don't get me wrong. I believe you're probably right about knowing more about Islam than them. Hell, even I probably know more.
But just cos we're in the right doesn't mean the other side will surrender that title without a fight.

 

[Enteebee]

I doubt it's possible to win the war of who knows "more" about islam, perhaps you know more about what a secular scientist would say is the current public consensus/historiography etc but these things are often so personal... I mean, it's not like there is much agreement within the islamic world as to what is TRUE islam anyway.

 

[moll.]

Don't be pedantic.
It was a poor metaphor, but you knew exactly what I meant.

 

[Enteebee]

wut

 

[KFunk]

No not really

It's just relativism and pluralism are self contradicting, Universe unbinding paradox's that are nothing other than an excuse to not have any from of argument.

I mean quite simply:

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
Me: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Yes"
Me: "You're sure?"
Relativist: "yes I'm sure."
Me: "So... you are absolutely sure that there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: ... *fail face*(

Some other options:

(1) Paint the problem of the absolute as fundamentally meaningless within the relativist frame

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
You: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Mu"
You: "Wut?"

---

(2) Restrict the domain of relativist claims

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth within the moral domain"
You: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Correct, within the moral domain"
You: "Have you not thereby contradicted yourself?"
Relativist: "No, because metaethical claims like 'there is no moral truth' are metaphysical, not normative - they do not fall within the 'moral domain'"

---

(3) Paraconsistency: accept contradiction at the limits of thought

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
You: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Yes"
You: "Absolutely?"
Relativist: "Yes"
You: "Reductio ad absurdum"
Relativist: "So? My claim is true and false"

---

(4) Accept uncertainty

Relativist: "There is no one, singular truth"
You: "So there are no absolutes?"
Relativist: "Yes"
You: "Absolutely?"
Relativist: "No"