What would be better? (1 Viewer)

[astroe]

I'm having a conflict of interests with my UAC application. I've found a few possible paths to getting where I aim to get,

• Bachelor of Commerce at UNSW transfer to UNSW Comm/Law after first year
• Bachelor of Commerce (Liberal Studies) at UNSW transfer to UNSW Comm/Law (is this even possible?) after first year
• Bachelor of Arts at UNSW transfer to UNSW Arts/Law after first year
• Bachelor of Economics, B Economics/B Arts at UNSW transfer to UNSW Economics/Law after first year
• Bachelor of Business and Commerce/Bachelor of Laws at UWS transfer into UNSW after first year.

So, what are pros/cons of each?
My main concern is doing Arts and not being able to transfer then I'll be majorly screwed.
I'm really going to need to excel in the course I do, even with the lower ATAR requirements of transferring, (~95-97), I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get that ATAR.

I'm only focusing on UNSW due to their HSC Plus scheme, where I'd get more preferential points for getting certain bands in certain subjects. I'm pretty sure I can get into UWS Law, considering it's 90.xx and they throw points at you for living in the area/doing well in subjects. (UWS Triple Advantage)

If any of you could shed light on this, or could provide alternative paths, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[bell531]

Im in a very similar boat as you: I also am aiming for combined law at UNSW, but am expecting to have to rely on alternate pathways into the course (i.e. transfer/graduate law).

The main thing I noticed with you is the inconsistencies in your desired combined course; do you want to ultimately combine Law with Commerce, Economics or Arts? You've listed all of these... If you are in doubt about what you are allowed to transfer into, I'm pretty sure you can transfer from Arts into Commerce/Law, or from Economics into Arts/Law, for example.

I was also looking at Comm (Liberal Studies), and decided that there would ultimately be little point in me entering this course, because: 1. if I do manage to transfer, I would've completed some ultimately useless Arts (and 'other') subjects in my first year of Lib. Stud. which wouldnt count to the ultimate Comm/Law degree (I think I'm right here...), and 2. if I don't manage to transfer then I would be in a four year Lib. Stud. degree with the intention of entering graduate law (another three years) after this, for an all too long total of seven years.



Anyway, for me right now, I am fairly confident I'll be able to transfer into Comm/Law at UNSW (my desired course) and will just have to do well in my first year of Commerce so as to ensure this.

 

[spence]

I'm having a conflict of interests with my UAC application. I've found a few possible paths to getting where I aim to get,

• Bachelor of Commerce at UNSW transfer to UNSW Comm/Law after first year
• Bachelor of Commerce (Liberal Studies) at UNSW transfer to UNSW Comm/Law (is this even possible?) after first year
• Bachelor of Arts at UNSW transfer to UNSW Arts/Law after first year
• Bachelor of Economics, B Economics/B Arts at UNSW transfer to UNSW Economics/Law after first year
• Bachelor of Business and Commerce/Bachelor of Laws at UWS transfer into UNSW after first year.

So, what are pros/cons of each?
My main concern is doing Arts and not being able to transfer then I'll be majorly screwed.
I'm really going to need to excel in the course I do, even with the lower ATAR requirements of transferring, (~95-97), I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get that ATAR.

I'm only focusing on UNSW due to their HSC Plus scheme, where I'd get more preferential points for getting certain bands in certain subjects. I'm pretty sure I can get into UWS Law, considering it's 90.xx and they throw points at you for living in the area/doing well in subjects. (UWS Triple Advantage)

If any of you could shed light on this, or could provide alternative paths, I'd really appreciate it!

If you don't want to do arts, then don't put it as a preference. And if you want to do law, I would personally recommend doing it at UWS, then trying to transfer later if you want

 

[midifile]

If you are in doubt about what you are allowed to transfer into, I'm pretty sure you can transfer from Arts into Commerce/Law, or from Economics into Arts/Law, for example.

Its possible but pretty stupid tbh. If you do straight commerce in your first year and transfer to comm/law, your first year commerce subjects will count towards your overall degree and you will still finish in 5 years (like everyone else who got straight into comm/law). If you do arts in your first year, then those arts courses wont count towards your comm/law degree - basically you will have wasted a year at uni. Same goes for doing economics and transferring to arts/law.

at astroe, dont do arts in first year just for the sake of getting good marks if its not what you want to do. First year commerce is basically rote learning (except for maybe qma/b), and you should be able to do well (D/HD's) if you attend lectures, tutes do hw, study a bit etc. There are also PASS classes (student run classes that go over the weekly material) if you need the extra work. BASICALLY, if you are driven to do well because you know you need the marks to transfer to law, you should be able to.

But just be aware, although the UAI to get into law does not necessarily reflect its difficulty, you may find it hard if your ATAR is low 90's. Although the material is not that hard (really its just a lot of reading), you do have to realise that the marking standard will be much higher than what you are used to (seeing as you will be being compared to a bunch of people with UAI/ATARs 99+). Some of my friends who got into law with 96 UAI are having trouble keeping up. That said, one of my friends who got a UAI of 95 has not gotton below a HD in a law assessment.

 

[bell531]

Its possible but pretty stupid tbh. If you do straight commerce in your first year and transfer to comm/law, your first year commerce subjects will count towards your overall degree and you will still finish in 5 years (like everyone else who got straight into comm/law). If you do arts in your first year, then those arts courses wont count towards your comm/law degree - basically you will have wasted a year at uni. Same goes for doing economics and transferring to arts/law.

Yeah, I know this. I was just saying to him that its not entirely necessary to pick your final course straight away if you intend to transfer. Obviously if you plan to do Comm/Law, you pick Commerce as your first degree then transfer.

 

[astroe]

Thanks for all your responses guys.

The thing is, I'm not sure what I want to combine law with, which is why I have those three options. Arts I saw as an easy way to get high marks and then transfer into Arts/Law or something.
I'm quite equally open to doing Arts/Ecos/Comm, I"m pretty "meh" about it. Like I don't really see the difference between Economics and Commerce except for the ATAR.
Last time I did anything Social Sciency was back in Year 10 Commerce, LOL.

Not to sound elitist or anything, but the stigma attached to UWS has put me off it somewhat, which is why I'm weighing up whether it is a better risk to do the other half of the Law degree at UNSW then hope that I can transfer in.

At the end of the day, I just wanna do law. I personally feel that I'd be proficient at it, I've done heaps of debating throughout high school and even mock trials. The lawyer who was the judge of the case really spoke highly of me, haha. I find that I'm pretty good on the analytical side of things as well. The main problem of my speculatively-shit ATAR is due to poor subject choices, not really a reflection of my general inability.

I think I'd be better if I was left with a Commerce or Economics degree than an Arts one should I not be able to transfer in. I'm also drawn to UNSW considering the internal transfer program that they have. Like, ideally, whatever degree I choose to do in my first year will be ones that I'd want to have credited towards my double degree Law course.

Haha, and wow, Commerce is easy?
Yay-errrs.


Actually, the only reason why I've left open Arts and Commerce/Economics is because I'm pretty crap at Sciences & Maths to be honest, which rules out all the Engineering/Science based degrees, as well as the hardcore mathematics Finance ones (i.e Actuarial). I only dropped 2U maths not too long ago so I'm familiar with it and get the gist of it. When Sciences and Maths are ruled out, I'm only left with the Social Sciences, which would be Arts and Businesses.

 

[melsc]

Which ever option will get you the best marks, i.e. based on interest and ability as the marks are what will determine if the transfer is successful. Best of luck

 

[spence]

Thanks for all your responses guys.

The thing is, I'm not sure what I want to combine law with, which is why I have those three options. Arts I saw as an easy way to get high marks and then transfer into Arts/Law or something.

Just keep in mind that arts isn't as easy as everyone says. IMO, it's not hard, but I've had to put in a lot more work for arts then I did when I was doing business, and my marks aren't as good as they were then

 

[astroe]

Ahhh, okay.
I personally have come to the conclusion that it's much safer and better to get into a law course straight away, as opposed to transferring later, even if it's UWS.

Anyone able to echo these statements?

 

[melsc]

Ahhh, okay.
I personally have come to the conclusion that it's much safer and better to get into a law course straight away, as opposed to transferring later, even if it's UWS.

Anyone able to echo these statements?

Well I dont know if its safe but it means:
*Yes you are already in a law course
*You do not risk not getting into a law course after 1 year if your UAI and GPA aren't high enough
*You can always transfer from UWS Bx/B Laws to somewhere else like any other transfer
*If your interests and abilities lie with law you have the best shot at a transfer.

UWS has a great practical law program. The are pumping money into it unlike MQ where it is theoretical and they are sucking the money out. If I had my time again I'd probably stick with UWS. UWS is not as bad as it sounds.

Best of luck!

 

[Domm]

Well I dont know if its safe but it means:
*Yes you are already in a law course
*You do not risk not getting into a law course after 1 year if your UAI and GPA aren't high enough
*You can always transfer from UWS Bx/B Laws to somewhere else like any other transfer
*If your interests and abilities lie with law you have the best shot at a transfer.

UWS has a great practical law program. The are pumping money into it unlike MQ where it is theoretical and they are sucking the money out. If I had my time again I'd probably stick with UWS. UWS is not as bad as it sounds.

Best of luck!

I'd get a generalist degree then do a grad LLB or a JD afterwards. No offence kids but I have classes with the just fallen out high school law students and very few of them possess the maturity or the time to actually do what law demands and law demands a lot.

If you have to go a uni that you're not really interested in even more reason to. Go to a lower UAI course in something that you're interested in, get reasonable marks (needn't be 99 UAI standard, it's strict just out of high school, not nearly as much after that, for the reasons I mentioned above) in that degree and then do law. You might find that you're interested in something else or a particular area of law in the meantime too.

 

[melsc]

^ While agree with you that law is difficult for an undergrad fresh out of high school and that most aren't mature/ready thats the whole reason behind the double degree, its eases you in and by the time you get to a full study load of law subjects you are ready (i.e. forth year) also for someone who law is their interest three whole years studying something else can be very boring and annoying.

Do keep in mind though that law is not a course for the faint hearted, lazy or immature. It requires maturity, commitment and hard work

 

[Domm]

^ While agree with you that law is difficult for an undergrad fresh out of high school and that most aren't mature/ready thats the whole reason behind the double degree, its eases you in and by the time you get to a full study load of law subjects you are ready (i.e. forth year) also for someone who law is their interest three whole years studying something else can be very boring and annoying.

Do keep in mind though that law is not a course for the faint hearted, lazy or immature. It requires maturity, commitment and hard work

Yea - still think the 'Melbourne' (why does Melbourne adopt something from overseas then put their name on it, part of it's eternal search for recognition next to big brother Sydney?) model is superior.

My thinking is that the reason for the double degree is that law firms and their clients don't want a 21 year old solicitor representing them, which I guess ties in to what you were saying.

 

[melsc]

The other reason for a double degree is to get a well grounded grad...

I must admit, I didn't see it at the time (being an over eager 18 year old) but my arts degree has actually complimented the law nicely and has been useful, plus I enjoyed the break!

 

[Domm]

Yea I went the other way around - Arts degree, full time job for three years and now JD. And yea Arts is really underrated. Arts teaches you some general skills and puts your brain in the right gear for law which is very analytical and language-y.

I recommend what I did. Law looks like fun but really is spawned from hell in terms of the work load, stress and shitloads of boring reading that one is subjected to do. I think that if you're desperate do law and do it now you might not be suited to a profession that is anything but that. So yea I think that a double degree is definitely better than a straight LLB.