Voting...what do you think? (1 Viewer)

[HumanDichotomy]

After checking out this thread, just wondering what people think about voting in general.

Should it be compulsory?
Is it fair?

etc...

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Yes.

 

[copkiller]

Its impossible to have compulsory voting and a secret ballot, since if people don't want to vote they will just spoil their ballot.

 

[JonathanM]

Yes.

Optional voting in America has revealed there to be more disadvantages than advantages. I do acknowledge the hypocrisy of having a free, democratic nation, but forcing people to vote, but nonetheless, I believe there would be worse implications for this country if we did not have mandatory voting.

And it's not like you have to vote. Just foot the fine if you have such a huge moral objection to it, it's not a huge sum of money.

 

[SylviaB]

Hell no should it be compulsory.

If someone doesn't care enough to voluntarily vote, then why do we want to force them to decide who the leader of our country is?

and yeah, blah blah blah, you can just put your name down and leave etc I know

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Its impossible to have compulsory voting and a secret ballot, since if people don't want to vote they will just spoil their ballot.

Which is exactly the reason I support Australia's system. They're still free to spoil their ballot, and I would never want to or try to deprive them of that privilege.

5% of voters do end up doing this, but that leaves us with an election participation rate of 95%.

If someone doesn't care enough to voluntarily vote, then why do we want to force them to decide who the leader of our country is?

Because they live in this country. They have a say. The health of democracy depends on citizens having their say. The ironic thing here is that they are almost being forced to have their say (though anonymously), which is a bit too much for most Libertarians to stomach, like most things the government does (and democracy itself seems too deplorable to many Libertarians, too, so...).

 

[pman]

just front and submit a blank ballot paper

 

[katie tully]

just front and submit a blank ballot paper

Yeah but if that's the case, why bother making it compulsory?

Those that want to vote will, and those that don't wont bother to turn up to draw a penis on the ballot.

It's quite simple.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Yeah but if that's the case, why bother making it compulsory?

Those that want to vote will, and those that don't wont bother to turn up to draw a penis on the ballot.

It's quite simple.

This has experimentally been proven false. Only 5% spoil their ballot paper each year in Australia, while based on experiences in other advanced Western democracies, often quite a bit more than 5% don't bother voting in voluntary voting systems.

Edit: I checked the stats here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout#

As usual, America's poor voter turnout rate is an anomaly not found in other advanced Western countries. I stand corrected in thinking voluntary voting would lead to low voter turnout rates (that seems to be a cultural issue when voting is made voluntary). I still support compulsory voting, since Australia has continually posted the highest voter participation rates in the world, but I wouldn't care as much now if it were scrapped.

 

[SylviaB]

Because they live in this country. They have a say. The health of democracy depends on citizens having their say.

Noo, it depends on citizens having the RIGHT to have their say.

The ironic thing here is that they are almost being forced to have their say (though anonymously), which is a bit too much for most Libertarians to stomach,

Okay that makes no sense.

yeah, they're almost being forced to have their say, what's ironic about that, and why isn't that a bad thing?

like most things the government does

Which is entirely understandable but whatever.

(and democracy itself seems too deplorable to many Libertarians, too, so...).

So those who hold a philosophy that is first and foremost about rights are against one of the most fundamental rights one can have?

ffs, it's as if you attack libertarianism just for the sake of attacking libertarianism.

 

[JonathanM]

Let me try an analogy.

It's one step trying to sell something to a person who is not in your store, but it's another thing to try to sell something to them while they're already in it, having a browse.

<LINK>

By involving people in the democratic process 'forcibly,' we're at the same time educating those who come in without a clue of what's going on of things that actually matter to them, like local and global politics etc.

My analogies always fail, but it's so much fun making them up :rofl:

 

[Cowbell]

You want to know about voting. I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain't allowed out until you all vote on what you're going to do tonight. You like to put your feet up and watch "Republican Party Reservation". They like to have sex with normal people using knives, guns and brand-new sexual organs that you did not know existed. So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as the eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome

 

[occer]

Voting should be optional for all above the age of 16.

 

[spence]

This has experimentally been proven false. Only 5% spoil their ballot paper each year in Australia, while based on experiences in other advanced Western democracies, often quite a bit more than 5% don't bother voting in voluntary voting systems.

Edit: I checked the stats here: Voter turnout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As usual, America's poor voter turnout rate is an anomaly not found in other advanced Western countries. I stand corrected in thinking voluntary voting would lead to low voter turnout rates (that seems to be a cultural issue when voting is made voluntary). I still support compulsory voting, since Australia has continually posted the highest voter participation rates in the world, but I wouldn't care as much now if it were scrapped.

But the 5% who spoil the ballot doesn't include the people who donkey vote, or vote for the person with the coolest name, or whatever, which just add randomness to the process. If people don't want to vote for whatever reason, they shouldn't have to

 

[izzy88]

If people don't want to vote for whatever reason, they shouldn't have to

and under the current system they don't have to vote- they just have to turn up and put the ballot in the box.

My problem is that the right to vote is not enshrined in the constitution. Instead of leaving it up to the courts to imply a right, there should be an express right to vote written in the constitution.

 

[spence]

and under the current system they don't have to vote- they just have to turn up and put the ballot in the box.

My problem is that the right to vote is not enshrined in the constitution. Instead of leaving it up to the courts to imply a right, there should be an express right to vote written in the constitution.

But that's completely pointless. As I said in my post, most people in that situation will just vote in a way that will add randomness to the outcome, which can hardly be seen as a desirable result

 

[pman]

and under the current system they don't have to vote- they just have to turn up and put the ballot in the box.

My problem is that the right to vote is not enshrined in the constitution. Instead of leaving it up to the courts to imply a right, there should be an express right to vote written in the constitution.

becouse it would be a wasted referendum, those that don't likd ebeing forced to vote will vote no, those that don't likde the idea of rapists and the like voting will vote no in the hope of one day removing their right to vote etcetera, so you pay heaps of money to get a no vote, the government already knows this

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

becouse it would be a wasted referendum, those that don't likd ebeing forced to vote will vote no, those that don't likde the idea of rapists and the like voting will vote no in the hope of one day removing their right to vote etcetera, so you pay heaps of money to get a no vote, the government already knows this

Actually, if there were a referendum today on whether or not voting should be a right, I can guarantee you over 80% of people would vote 'yes, it should'. Aussies love equality and egalitarianism.

Your attempt to 'justify' government inaction on the issue is, frankly, weird.

 

[copkiller]

This has experimentally been proven false. Only 5% spoil their ballot paper each year in Australia, while based on experiences in other advanced Western democracies, often quite a bit more than 5% don't bother voting in voluntary voting systems.

Edit: I checked the stats here: Voter turnout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As usual, America's poor voter turnout rate is an anomaly not found in other advanced Western countries. I stand corrected in thinking voluntary voting would lead to low voter turnout rates (that seems to be a cultural issue when voting is made voluntary). I still support compulsory voting, since Australia has continually posted the highest voter participation rates in the world, but I wouldn't care as much now if it were scrapped.

But why is a high turnout rate a good thing?

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

But why is a high turnout rate a good thing?

I'm not even going to bother answering that. You don't even think democracy is a good thing because you don't like the notion that you 'only' have as much of a vote as Joe Average and that he might vote for a government which promises universal healthcare.