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JD Offer from Melbourne and UNSW (1 Viewer)

TinaElle

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Got JD offer from both Melbourne and UNSW: ;)

Melbourne - Full fee
UNSW - CSP

Which one should I choose?? I'd love to go to Melbourne because of its reputation. However the CSP offer from UNSW is also very attractive too...

My question is - would getting a Melbourne JD (full fee) really worth it?
I am interested in International Law. In terms of career perspective - Would my chance of getting into top (international) law firms much higher if I graduate from Melbourne JD than UNSW JD (say if I graduated with the same GPA)??


Thanks!!
 

Frigid

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Which one should I choose?? I'd love to go to Melbourne because of its reputation. However the CSP offer from UNSW is also very attractive too...

My question is - would getting a Melbourne JD (full fee) really worth it?
I am interested in International Law. In terms of career perspective - Would my chance of getting into top (international) law firms much higher if I graduate from Melbourne JD than UNSW JD (say if I graduated with the same GPA)??

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DISCLOSURE: I graduated from UNSW LLB this year, having finished the program last year. In my time I was quite involved in the UNSW law school, but never as a student representative or on a faculty level. Therefore, the above views are my own and, unless specifically cited, do not represent the views of Melbourne or UNSW Law Schools.
 

Bertrand

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Hi Tina,

I was sort of in a similar situation. I didn't apply to NSW unis because I couldn't bring myself to live in Sydney, but I did apply to Melbourne and others. I thought it through before the offers / rejections came through and decided I would pay for Melbourne if it came to that. In the end, I got CSP at Melbourne, so it's moot now.

I intend to practice locally, though. I don't know what you mean by "getting into top international firms" means. As far as I know, you are limited to giving legal advice in the jurisdictions for which your registration is recognized. You can usually also give legal advice as an employee, but only to your employer. Ie. you won't be client facing. You can look into which jurisdictions provide reciprocal arrangements, and which ones need what, fairly easily.

You should consider that you will need to do your articles in the state you did your degree in. You will likely need to do this irrespective of where you intend to practice. The reciprocal arrangements are generally for people admitted as lawyers.

While there is a fair bit of money involved, you do not have to pay it back until you are working. Where you start out will have a dramatic effect on where you end up. I would pay it if you think it will help your career.

I can't tell you much about UNSW, but if you want to practice law in the US then it's a no-brainer. Melbourne is one of only three schools outside of US and Canada that is American Bar Association approved. Given two applicants that are from ABA-approved and not ABA-approved, you will need a very compelling reason for them to get past the ABA-approved guy. In the US, non-ABA-approved schools are a sick joke.

Whether the firm is US or not, they probably won't have heard of Melbourne or UNSW, so will look at the US News Rankings. Currently Melbourne is 36 and UNSW is 47. However, Melbourne is in a radical transition phase at the moment, so this will likely change. I can't tell you if it will change for the better -- though I suspect it will -- or not.

Owing to its dean, who has a background in international refugee law, Melbourne currently emphasises international law. However, he has recently resigned, so this may change by the time you get to electives. It also offers an arrangement to get "dual" degrees in China and the US whereby you get qualified in both jurisdictions. The US school is NYU, which is an insanely good law school. I am completely unfamiliar with Chinese law schools. I would expect competition to be fierce, so if you don't expect to do extremely well, I wouldn't give much weight to this.

As Frigid points out, they also have an arrangement for the BCL, but this is not the same thing as the dual degree programme. BCL does not confer any qualification to practice law anywhere. It's just a masters degree. You don't do it as part of your JD. All they have is a 5000 pound scholarship towards it for which you are eligible (but may not get) if you graduated from Melbourne law.

Hope this has helped.
 

dste6

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Personally, I would never pay $90k for an Australian law degree if I had an option of a CSP place at another Go8 university.

Theoretically UMelb is better, but I must stress the word 'theoretically'. In reality, and in practice, it is unlikely that you will feel any tangible difference that is worth paying 3 times more.

What you will get is the feeling that your "in the best law school in the country". This feeling will last for up to 12 weeks, until you come across your first exam and realize that law school is a bitch. At this point you will forget which brand you've chosen, and realize that really all that matters is your head and your Contracts books...and how long you can remain seated at your desk before your ass goes numb.

Think long term. Consider that you WILL be come face to face with the financial burden of paying a HECS debt on top of whatever undergrad HECS debt you may already have. Are you willing to pay a 90k debt or 26k debt.

My point is that UMelb may be perceived as being 5-10% better than UNSW (I feel stupid even putting a number on something so intangible). Is this worth paying 3 times more, when soon you will realize that in any good law school, the limiting factor for success is not the school but yourself?
 

Strawbaby

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As someone sitting in 185 Pelham St right now, I can tell you that while it's good, it's certainly not worth $60 000 more than another quite prestigious university teaching more or less the same material.
 

dste6

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I can't tell you much about UNSW, but if you want to practice law in the US then it's a no-brainer. Melbourne is one of only three schools outside of US and Canada that is American Bar Association approved. Given two applicants that are from ABA-approved and not ABA-approved, you will need a very compelling reason for them to get past the ABA-approved guy. In the US, non-ABA-approved schools are a sick joke.

Whether the firm is US or not, they probably won't have heard of Melbourne or UNSW, so will look at the US News Rankings. Currently Melbourne is 36 and UNSW is 47.

Hope this has helped.
This is complete nonsense.

Bertrand is right only in that no US firm is likely to have heard of UMelb or UNSW, or be particularly interested in them for that matter. An ABA-approval will not substantially improve your chances of being employed as a lawyer in America other than allowing you to sit the bar exam, which you will fail because UMelb does not teach specifics of the US jurisdiction. Issues of the bar exam aside, the only way that you would have a chance in hell of becoming employed by a large American firm is if you were phenomenal...in which case it wouldn't matter if you finished UMelb or UNSW, because your dazzling achievements are what they will be looking at, not which Australian law school you finished.

Regarding the rankings, those are overall rankings of the universities, not the law schools themselves, but this doesnt matter anyway: Do you really believe that a white-shoe firm will be looking up the US Times to see whether UMelb is ranked higher than UNSW. I'm sorry, they're too busy knocking back Harvard graduates in favour of Yale:haha:. Do not believe the hype, finishing UMelb (or any other australia law school) will not get you hired in America, unless you have enormous achievements aside from that.

Take the 60k and put it into a start-up business or NGO; having this in your CV this is far more likely to get you hired in America than finishing UMelb over UNSW.

Please don't think that I'm down on UMelb because I'm not, its a great school that I have alot of respect for. It's just some of the hype surrounding it is unrealistic and sometimes misleading. If you had gotten a CSP place, I'd say go for it....but I just want to save you 60k.
 

velox

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Personally, I dont think UMelb is worth another 60k than UNSW.

If you want to get hired in the US, you would either need to transfer across, or take an LLM at a decent school in the US.

I'd take UNSW.
 

eschew

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just courious about your lsat scores? could you share it with us?one of my friend is considering melbourne as well
 

dste6

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my LSAT was 151, with WAM of 83. I was offered a csp place
 

banco55

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If you are talking about "international law" in the sense of public international law it seems like half the law students you meet want to work at the UN or in Geneva. Too bad it's one of the smallest niche areas of law around (and given the interest one of the most competitive to get ahead in).

If you want to work in the US in one of the big commercial firms you should know that there's a huge glut of law graduates in the US and they have quite enough grads from their top schools to more than fill the available vacancies.

Be realistic.
 
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dste6

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If you are talking about "international law" in the sense of public international law it seems like half the law students you meet want to work at the UN or in Geneva. Too bad it's one of the smallest niche areas of law around (and given the interest one of the most competitive to get ahead in).
International law has applications in the public sector here, and in wider Asia (see: 'immigration policy' and 'refugee';)). However, you may be right in that its a competitive niche here as well?
 

Frigid

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banco55 said:
If you want to work in the US in one of the big commercial firms you should know that there's a huge glut of law graduates in the US and they have quite enough grads from their top schools to more than fill the available vacancies.

Be realistic.
On that point, I have two links:
 

TinaElle

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Thank you for all your advice!!

I don't have any particular preference of where to practice, but if I want to get into the 'big 6' law firms in Australia, what grade/mark would I need (e.g. for clerkship) if I graduate from Melbourne JD vs. UNSW JD?

Would it be harder to get Distinction from Melbourne than UNSW??

What about student life/experience? (e.g. Melbourne has many guest lecture series, and Mentor Program: Melbourne Law School Mentor Program : Law School Careers Office : The University of Melbourne)


Thanks again for all your help :)
 

dste6

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Interesting article from Vanderbilt. It makes me happy that I don't live in the US:D.

It would seem that undergraduate LLB makes alot of economic sense, as you avoid the opportunity cost incurred in any graduate law degree.

"...of course, a law degree is a professional degree; it confers prestige. But alas, can you eat prestige?"

LOL! thats a keeper :D.
 

banco55

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Thank you for all your advice!!

I don't have any particular preference of where to practice, but if I want to get into the 'big 6' law firms in Australia, what grade/mark would I need (e.g. for clerkship) if I graduate from Melbourne JD vs. UNSW JD?

Would it be harder to get Distinction from Melbourne than UNSW??

What about student life/experience? (e.g. Melbourne has many guest lecture series, and Mentor Program: Melbourne Law School Mentor Program : Law School Careers Office : The University of Melbourne)


Thanks again for all your help :)
It would be crazy to go to Melbourne and pay full fee. I don't even see how it's a choice? Only way I can see you'd be umming and ahhing is if you have rich parents who are happy to pay the full fee cost.
 
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dishameh

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Thank you for all your advice!!

I don't have any particular preference of where to practice, but if I want to get into the 'big 6' law firms in Australia, what grade/mark would I need (e.g. for clerkship) if I graduate from Melbourne JD vs. UNSW JD?

Would it be harder to get Distinction from Melbourne than UNSW??

What about student life/experience? (e.g. Melbourne has many guest lecture series, and Mentor Program: Melbourne Law School Mentor Program : Law School Careers Office : The University of Melbourne)


Thanks again for all your help :)
Hi, I'm in a similar situation as you are. I am an international student. I will be paying about $20,000 less at UNSW than at UMelb. So I was wondering what you eventually decided to do?

As an international student, my goal is to look for work in Australia (I am not interested in looking for work US or any other country.) In that case, which university would have better job prospects and if so, is it worth paying 20k more for that?
 

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