Should police have any powers that ordinary citizens don't? (1 Viewer)

[Lukybear]

Obviously non of you have been attacked before.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Very rarely will you find a pig helping out someone being attacked

Usually they turn up after it's too late

The sole exception is on the warm, Spring morn of September 11th when the NYPD responded with bravery, and many fine souls were lost...
...Many more from New York's bravest in the FDNY who died thanks to the police neglecting to tell them that collapse of the 2 WTC was imminent

God Bless

 

[John McCain]

Obviously non of you have been attacked before.

If you were being attacked by an armed assailant, would you rather:

a. have a weapon to defend yourself
b. have the police arrive half an hour after the attack

 

[hectic_lowie]

Shane, what sort of shit 17 year old were you? Fuck tha police, etc.

i got in trouble for knocking some coons tooth out when i was 16 and caught buying beer when i was 17. still doesnt give you a proper experience with cops because

a) they cant do shit anyway
b) im white so they dont give a fuck. if i was black they may have taken me into the bush and flogged me lol

Obviously non of you have been attacked before.

what do you mean? assaulted? lol yeah bro never

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

The police is merely the arm of the executive responsible for executing and administering the laws enacted by parliament.

On your logic it would be worth examining the executive power afforded to every public official in the country. Should DoCS care workers have powers regular citizens do not? Should the taxation office have the power to determine the tax rules over any regular citizen?

Now your talking. Yes we should review all executive power, because all executives are just fallible people, and giving people power over others is extremely dangerous.

The police like any government organisation, contains a broad spectrum of individuals. Classifying every police officer (there are many more than front line officers) in the state as 'unintelligent' displays great ignorance IMO.

I did not classify all police officers as unintelligent. But based on the entry requirements for a policing course, the difficulty of the course and the relatively low pay of police officers compared to alternative occupations requiring university education and high intelligence it is a fair generalization to say they are not the best and brightest our society has to offer.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

is it not the powers that they have above and beyond that of a civilian that define them as police?

hmm HMMM

No it is not.

Anyone can fight fires. What makes someone a fire fighter is that they are paid to do it on behalf of other people.

Similarly, anyone can teach children (with their parent's permission), but teacher are paid to specialize in this and do this for parents who are busy working in other occupations.

By this same logic, anyone should also be allowed to defend themselves, and to defend other people and property. We can still pay police to help people to do this, but we must remember that they our servants being paid to work for us. There is absolutely no reason why they need any special rights or privileges that we do not have.

 

[pman]

no, don't give them the power to arrest people, its not required

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

no, don't give them the power to arrest people, its not required

It should be the same power as citizens arrest which is still legally recognised.

Sure police should be able to detain people, but so should anyone who has witnessed a serious crime. In both cases, people who arrest people falsely (police or otherwise) should be charged with the same serious offence.

For instance, if a shopkeeper catches someone stealing from him, why shouldn't he be able to arrest them him self?

Why should he have to call the police, allowing the thieves to escape in the mean time, when the police are just men in blue suits who would only be doing exactly what the shopkeeper could do himself much more efficiently and expediently.

 

[incentivation]

For instance, if a shopkeeper catches someone stealing from him, why shouldn't he be able to arrest them him self?

He can.

LAW ENFORCEMENT (POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES) ACT 2002 - SECT 100 Power of other persons to arrest without warrant

But it is generally not in the interests of his safety to do so.

The institutions we have to administer justice (police, judiciary, oversight bodies) exist for the betterment of society and to protect citizens rights. It is not an infallible system, however it is effective.

You still seem to be failing to grasp the notion that the police exist by virtue of the powers conferred by the state. As I said, the reason for and extent of these powers enacted in legislation by the executive/parliament should be the focus of your rant.

 

[_trickster_]

L4zar beemmzzz!!!!!!1111111

 

[0bs3n3]

I totally agree,
By what right do these overweight dim wits 'punish' us. I mean we all know what type of people go and join 'the force',i.e. mincing redneck sadists who dropped out of primary school.

Oh can you please shut up? When was the last time your rights were abused by a police officer? Oh, never? Yeah, go listen to your rap garbage some more.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Oh can you please shut up? When was the last time your rights were abused by a police officer? Oh, never? Yeah, go listen to your rap garbage some more.

I have known quite a few people who have been abused by the police. Not that it matters if I know them personally, a quick google search will reveal a great many cases where police have abused their powers, and these are just the ones where they get caught, usually because they didn't realise there was a CCTV camera watching them.

Here is a classic example. A bouncer trying to get to work was attacked by 30 police officers. They all lied and said the bouncer attacked them first, and had the gaul to charge him. CCTV footage later revealed that the bouncer had done nothing more than talk to the police quite calmly and politely.

YouTube - Security jumped by cops

If you search you tube for police brutality videos from the USA its even more horrifying. There are literally hundreds of videos of police brutally bashing people for no good reason, including women and children.

 

[katie tully]

Also I think if you give people the right to defend themselves, I don't think the rate of assault is suddenly going to explode overnight.

I think there will be the same number of random assaults, it's just that if I get glassed whilst standing having a drink, I should be able to defend myself in some manner, as opposed to lying on the ground like a wounded dog waiting for the cops to turn up.

Yay

 

[incentivation]

I have known quite a few people who have been abused by the police. Not that it matters if I know them personally, a quick google search will reveal a great many cases where police have abused their powers, and these are just the ones where they get caught, usually because they didn't realise there was a CCTV camera watching them.

Here is a classic example. A bouncer trying to get to work was attacked by 30 police officers. They all lied and said the bouncer attacked them first, and had the gaul to charge him. CCTV footage later revealed that the bouncer had done nothing more than talk to the police quite calmly and politely.

YouTube - Security jumped by cops

If you search you tube for police brutality videos from the USA its even more horrifying. There are literally hundreds of videos of police brutally bashing people for no good reason, including women and children.

Interesting.

However, isolated instances of the abuse of police power are not sufficient to justify the removal or reduction of those powers.

Wherever power is afforded to an individual, or group of individuals, there is inevitably going to be instances of wrongdoing. Such is the weakness of human nature.

The system should be judged according to the safeguards implemented within through oversight bodies such as the PIC, Professional Standards Command and Parliament. These bodies provide the necessary investigative and reporting standards, as well as recourse when power is abused and the rights of others unlawfully impinged. The Royal Commission certainly improved the state of affairs in NSW, and the reforms in terms of oversight initiated after the commission certainly assisted in that process.

The US experience is vastly different to that here in Australia. It is futile to compare the two.

It's well and good to highlight the failings of the current system, however what alternative system of justice do you propose? You seem to focus on a power of arrest for the ordinary citizen, which of course already exists, yet cannot detail any realistic model of justice.

 

[incentivation]

Also I think if you give people the right to defend themselves, I don't think the rate of assault is suddenly going to explode overnight.

I think there will be the same number of random assaults, it's just that if I get glassed whilst standing having a drink, I should be able to defend myself in some manner, as opposed to lying on the ground like a wounded dog waiting for the cops to turn up.

Yay

Who said you couldn't defend yourself?

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Interesting.

However, isolated instances of the abuse of police power are not sufficient to justify the removal or reduction of those powers.

They are by no means isolated. This is just what gets reported. Speaking of royal commissions a royal commission into police treatment of aboriginals actually found that they are routinely brutalised and targeted by police.

Wherever power is afforded to an individual, or group of individuals, there is inevitably going to be instances of wrongdoing. Such is the weakness of human nature.

Exactly. So don't give any one group special powers over others.

The system should be judged according to the safeguards implemented within through oversight bodies such as the PIC, Professional Standards Command and Parliament. These bodies provide the necessary investigative and reporting standards, as well as recourse when power is abused and the rights of others unlawfully impinged. The Royal Commission certainly improved the state of affairs in NSW, and the reforms in terms of oversight initiated after the commission certainly assisted in that process.

Yes, the government is very good at investigating itself by setting up committees with fancy names.

The US experience is vastly different to that here in Australia. It is futile to compare the two.

Not really. Australia and the US are very similar, I simply cited the US because there are more examples you can view because of its much higher population.

It's well and good to highlight the failings of the current system, however what alternative system of justice do you propose? You seem to focus on a power of arrest for the ordinary citizen, which of course already exists, yet cannot detail any realistic model of justice.

Basically everyone has equal rights, regardless of what badges they carry or uniforms they happen to wear.

The main practical difference here would be the right to bear arms.

 

[incentivation]

Basically everyone has equal rights, regardless of what badges they carry or uniforms they happen to wear.

The main practical difference here would be the right to bear arms.

So your system of justice is that every person has equal rights? To do what?

How are persons prosecuted? How are matters initiated? How does one investigate serious matters? What sanctions are imposed? Who imposes those sanctions? Ultimately, how is good order maintained?

I love idealists..

 

[katie tully]

Who said you couldn't defend yourself?

If I bust a taser out of my pocket and jam it in the neck of some prick, I'm not going to get in trouble?

 

[incentivation]

They are by no means isolated. This is just what gets reported.

What evidence do you have to support that statement?

In an organisation of approximately 15,000, which deals with tens of thousands of incidents per year, how many instances of abuse of power occur?

Its all hyperbole. One would be ignorant to suggest there is no abuse of power. One is equally ignorant to suggest it is an endemic problem.

 

[incentivation]

If I bust a taser out of my pocket and jam it in the neck of some prick, I'm not going to get in trouble?

The taser, not the force, is prohibited. Every person has the right to self-defence, as long as it is reasonable, save for the use of specified weapons. Why would you need a taser?

How often is a member of the public confronted with a volatile situation or interaction with a mentally ill or drug affected person requiring the use of such weapons? What individual is generally willing to enter a situation where they are required to subdue such a person?