Who thinks the HSC is unfair? (4 Viewers)

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

how do they sort out the conversion rates for ENTER/OP/IB etc?

ajdlinux · Dec 19, 2009

philphie said:
how do they sort out the conversion rates for ENTER/OP/IB etc?

ENTER is directly equivalent to ATAR - will be renamed ATAR next year actually. As for OP/IB, I think the different TACs decide on a conversion rate every year.

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Well yeah to a degree it sort of would, not just in scaling, but you can't seriously tell me the same student would achieve the same results over 2 years in a very low ranked school vs. a top gov't selective...
Similar arguement behind why they have rural disadvantage bonus points at some uni's...unless your parents can afford to send you away to boarding school the likelihood is that you would have to go to a poor performing (both students and teachers) school closer to you.

philphie said:
don't bother with that guy, you can tell he is just trying to fire you up by just giving you two word answers

LOL, I wasn't trying to fire him up. I provided my authentic opinion.

Well, to macca91: It is true that very lowly ranked school would be different from a highly ranked selective school, and you have a point about less able teachers.
But if it's about less able cohorts, no, I disagree. If you have less able cohorts, you can more easily come 1st of the year, which would allow you to earn your HSC marks purely with your efforts. That's not a disadvantage, IMO.

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

ajdlinux said:
ENTER is directly equivalent to ATAR - will be renamed ATAR next year actually. As for OP/IB, I think the different TACs decide on a conversion rate every year.

ah ok, i still can't fathom how they could align comparisons from two campletely different educatiion systems.

does anyone know how the IB is taaught or the structure of it?

5233andy · Dec 19, 2009

philphie said:
ah ok, i still can't fathom how they could align comparisons from two campletely different educatiion systems.

does anyone know how the IB is taaught or the structure of it?

International Baccalaureate (IB)

The IB's supposed to be a more rounded education, helping you become a more aware and active citizen of the world. Well, that's according to the IBO, anyway.

Whilst looking for a school for my brother, some of the schools that we looked at offered the IB. I remember psychology being a subject and I would've loved to do that. There's the basic sciences, maths, etc. On top of that, I believe learning a language other than your native (which happens to be English, in Australia), is compulsory, if not, along the lines of that. The IB's supposed to be a somewhat challenging course, in a nutshell.

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Well the ATAR is a rank, you know so ATAR 90 means you beat 90% of everyone that started in year 7, so I imagine they would use similar data to convert the other ones...in other words say if the top .05% get 99.95 ATAR then the top 0.05% of IB recipients would get that ATAR upon conversion.

alright, i guess that's as fair as it could be despite it's not what i would really consider as moderation

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

5233andy said:
International Baccalaureate (IB)

The IB's supposed to be a more rounded education, helping you become a more aware and active citizen of the world. Well, that's according to the IBO, anyway.

Whilst looking for a school for my brother, some of the schools that we looked at offered the IB. I remember psychology being a subject and I would've loved to do that. There's the basic sciences, maths, etc. On top of that, I believe learning a language other than your native (which happens to be English, in Australia), is compulsory, if not, along the lines of that. The IB's supposed to be a somewhat challenging course, in a nutshell.

sounds like it might cater better for the small demographic of intelligent individuals that fall through the cracks of the HSC

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

study-freak said:
LOL, I wasn't trying to fire him up. I provided my authentic opinion.

Well, to macca91: It is true that very lowly ranked school would be different from a highly ranked selective school, and you have a point about less able teachers.
But if it's about less able cohorts, no, I disagree. If you have less able cohorts, you can more easily come 1st of the year, which would allow you to earn your HSC marks purely with your efforts. That's not a disadvantage, IMO.

haha alright, then i guess it's just me who gets pissed off at people who give short replies when you go off into a fucking essay

wendybird · Dec 19, 2009

this year one of my friends achieved 99.9 ATAR with 1st place extension history, 5th place advanced english, 10th modern history and 15th studies of religion (those are state rankings) and she did 4u english as well.

dayum. That many state ranks and still no 99.95. I guess if you look at this case, you can say that scaling is unfair.

(though I suppose we don't know about those other 3 units, but still..)

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Yeah I agree, fair enough. I didn't think you were firing me up, which is good because I get fired up pretty easily lol and it doesn't end well for anyone. (e.g. I punched my mate in the face last night after he slapped me for fun haha...probs not something to be proud of lol)

Congrats on the ATAR btw just noticed your sig.

Haha, thanks

and it sounds quite fortunate for me that you didn't think I was trying to fire you up lol

philphie said:
haha alright, then i guess it's just me who gets pissed off at people who give short replies when you go off into a fucking essay

lol, I see. Yeah, maybe I should have elaborated on it a bit further before lol

wendybird · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Wow you just opened my eyes to that..I was using it as an example of how you can do well without maths/sci, but yeah you are totally right I guess it also shows scaling at work, those ranks in maths/sci would have definitely yielded a 99.95.

The other units were also humanities, I'm not exactly sure how she went but I imagine very well, she is an exceptionally good humanities student.

Its true my friend. Doing maths/sciences will generally speaking get you VERY far in attaining a high ATAR if you achieve highly in them. Scaling is a real boost there.

Whereas for humanities subjects, you have to not only perform highly, but for a 99.95/99.9 - EXCEPTIONALLY.

But, FYI, not a single unit of Maths/Science counted toward my ATAR. Hence a blow for the Humanities!!! And if you look in the past Daniel Swain also got 100UAI with no maths or science.

HOWEVER, we both had high scaling distinction courses in our reportoire - which scales comparably to 4U maths. Also, some humanities subjects scale much better than others.

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Haha I am hardly going to reach out of your screen and hit you....wow I can see a market for that technology! lol

lollllll
Maybe some engineer might make such screen in the future, although quite impossible.

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

study-freak said:
lollllll
Maybe some engineer might make such screen in the future, although quite impossible.

would that engineer be you/ i'm just assuming you'll do engineering by your subjects

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

philphie said:
would that engineer be you/ i'm just assuming you'll do engineering by your subjects

lol, nah
i'm gonna do med.

macca91 said:
Well you could just have one of those cartoon style boxing gloves shoot out and hit you...controlling it could be interesting.

lol good idea

wendybird · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Haha I am hardly going to reach out of your screen and hit you....wow I can see a market for that technology! lol

My contribution to that convo.

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

wendybird said:
My contribution to that convo.

LOL, I want to pos rep you but apparently, I must spread it.

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

macca91 said:
Where are you aiming to do med?

Um, either Usyd or UNSW
I still can't deicde which one would be better for me.

philphie · Dec 19, 2009

study-freak said:
Um, either Usyd or UNSW
I still can't deicde which one would be better for me.

most people will tell you to go to unsw

study-freak · Dec 19, 2009

philphie said:
most people will tell you to go to unsw

What if Usyd offers 10k p.a. scholarship while I don't think UNSW will (only top 2 med ppl will get it)

wendybird · Dec 19, 2009

Michael (Jetblack..) did a fair bit of research into it through asking medical professionals - he reckons Sydney, but PM him for details and elaboration into why.

I'm doing combined law with zero interest in med, so I'm no help.

ETA: Wait, so didn't you get a Scientia as well as the USyd scholarship? (automatic ATAR related thing)

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