Atheism - Discussion thread (3 Viewers)

[annabackwards]

When Jesus was asked to summarize his religion, he said that it was loving God and our neighbor. Everything else is a means to that end.

It would be difficult to summise it in a scentence, but more or less I could accept something along the lines of;
To live a morally righteous life, to love God and your fellow people, to resist the temptation to sin and glorify God in all that you accomplish and edeavour to acheive.

It is a selfless purpose, not to do the bare minimum or w/e that is required to get into Heaven.

I know, i've been to church at least once a week every week since i can remember.

Many atheists are nice, kind and righteous people too. They live their lives the way they see fit and if this "God" is as almighty and just as you people portray him to be then he'd grant them entry into "heaven" anyway.

Either way, don't you see that you also live a "selfish" life as you put it just so you can reach your ultimate goal of reaching heaven?

And yes, you do come off arrogant because you seem to suggest that atheists are selfish people, who cannot appreciate life or anything at all just because they don't have the need/belief in a "greater purpose".

what good you do in the world is not a selfess act if you do it to show God how good of a person you are

Exactly.

 

[Name_Taken]

Whereas someone like me would see it thus:

"To live a morally right life, not necessarily religiously; to love your fellow people, to resist the temptation to be a bad person, and glorify yourself in all that you accomplish and endeavour to achieve."

It is impossible to be morally righteous without being religious. The notion of morality (right and wrong) is completely subjective and not binding on the individual if you abandon the notion of a higher authority than yourself.

Athiests are incapable of appreciating true love as I said before...

Resist the temptation to be a bad person, lol, well its a start I guess. Who is to say what is bad or not though? You?

Glorifying yourself? So your goal of your existence is partly based on the notion of self-promotion and advancement (possibly at the expense of others)? Ultimately you choose to live a selfish existence based on the worshiping of yourself with your own happiness as the ultimate goal in life.

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

Athiests are incapable of appreciating true love as I said before...

As Pauline Hanson would say; "Please explain?"

 

[Kwayera]

It is impossible to be morally righteous without being religious. The notion of morality (right and wrong) is completely subjective and not binding on the individual if you abandon the notion of a higher authority than yourself.

Is it really? Then how were people moral before religion? How are they moral if they've never heard of it?

Humans have evolved morality independent of any external influence, and this is what informs your warped religious morals. We've been over this, but I guess you follow the "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" school of rebuttal.

Athiests are incapable of appreciating true love as I said before...

Justify.

Resist the temptation to be a bad person, lol, well its a start I guess. Who is to say what is bad or not though? You?

You continually have to resist the temptation to sin, do you not? What's the difference?

Again with inbuilt morality.

Glorifying yourself? So your goal of your existence is partly based on the notion of self-promotion and advancement (possibly at the expense of others)? Ultimately you choose to live a selfish existence based on the worshiping of yourself with your own happiness as the ultimate goal in life.

Sure. There's nothing inherently wrong with this kind of selfishness. It kind of leads one to be the kind of person you yourself can live with, i.e. a good one. What's wrong with having your own happiness as a goal, especially if, say, helping others and being moral makes you happy?

 

[philphie]

It is impossible to be morally righteous without being religious. The notion of morality (right and wrong) is completely subjective and not binding on the individual if you abandon the notion of a higher authority than yourself.

Athiests are incapable of appreciating true love as I said before...

Resist the temptation to be a bad person, lol, well its a start I guess. Who is to say what is bad or not though? You?

Glorifying yourself? So your goal of your existence is partly based on the notion of self-promotion and advancement (possibly at the expense of others)? Ultimately you choose to live a selfish existence based on the worshiping of yourself with your own happiness as the ultimate goal in life.

so a life experience has no participation in forming our moral decisiveness? apart from that you seem to forget parental authority, yes, non religious people also have parents that indocrinate us, except not with religion, but with ethics.

this incapacity of love thign again. what are we? robots?

 

[philphie]

Whereas someone like me would see it thus:

"To live a morally right life, not necessarily religiously; to love your fellow people, to resist the temptation to be a bad person, and glorify yourself in all that you accomplish and endeavour to achieve."

lol no offence, in that kind of wording that's what we call satanism.

 

[Name_Taken]

As Pauline Hanson would say; "Please explain?"

The athiest is unable to accept that they are not the ultimate authority in their lives.

Everything they do is aimed at the selfish goal of advancing their own self interests (not always at the direct expense of others), but living for oneself is a form of self-worship. Sort of like the man who lives for his career, worships money, it is his goal in life and becomes a sort of idol. The athiest idolises their own existence.

True love, is a completely selfless relationship, wherby an individual may commit themselves entirely but does not demand, or expect anything in return.

So much "love" these days is simply based on oneself, because it makes one happy, because your partner makes you happy, makes you feel loved, because they're partner is rich (it happens, tho I'm not saying its common) ultimately it is still aimed at satisfying a person's own selfish desires.

They are incompatible.

 

[philphie]

The athiest is unable to accept that they are not the ultimate authority in their lives.

Everything they do is aimed at the selfish goal of advancing their own self interests (not always at the direct expense of others), but living for oneself is a form of self-worship. Sort of like the man who lives for his career, worships money, it is his goal in life and becomes a sort of idol. The athiest idolises their own existence.

True love, is a completely selfless relationship, wherby an individual may commit themselves entirely but does not demand, or expect anything in return.

So much "love" these days is simply based on oneself, because it makes one happy, because your partner makes you happy, makes you feel loved, because they're partner is rich (it happens, tho I'm not saying its common) ultimately it is still aimed at satisfying a person's own selfish desires.

They are incompatible.

marriage is a two way street. if she makes you feel that way, it is quite evident that you reciprocate, if you didn't how could you even maintain the relationhip? this is for all people

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

The athiest is unable to accept that they are not the ultimate authority in their lives.

Everything they do is aimed at the selfish goal of advancing their own self interests (not always at the direct expense of others), but living for oneself is a form of self-worship. Sort of like the man who lives for his career, worships money, it is his goal in life and becomes a sort of idol. The athiest idolises their own existence.

True love, is a completely selfless relationship, wherby an individual may commit themselves entirely but does not demand, or expect anything in return.

So much "love" these days is simply based on oneself, because it makes one happy, because your partner makes you happy, makes you feel loved, because they're partner is rich (it happens, tho I'm not saying its common) ultimately it is still aimed at satisfying a person's own selfish desires.

They are incompatible.

I'm classified as an athiest and I'm in a selfless relationship. I'm committed for as long as she is committed. I'll love her for as long as she loves me. I don't expect anything in return, yet I'm not going to live in a loveless relationship.

Yet I have found a good balance between caring for her and caring for myself and even caring for others.

I only ask for money in situations where I'll end up out of pocket and may end up not being able to sustain myself (such as driving someone somewhere)...

I don't think about myslef enough I'm told... But I'd rather not.

 

[annabackwards]

It is impossible to be morally righteous without being religious. The notion of morality (right and wrong) is completely subjective and not binding on the individual if you abandon the notion of a higher authority than yourself.

Athiests are incapable of appreciating true love as I said before...

Resist the temptation to be a bad person, lol, well its a start I guess. Who is to say what is bad or not though? You?

Glorifying yourself? So your goal of your existence is partly based on the notion of self-promotion and advancement (possibly at the expense of others)? Ultimately you choose to live a selfish existence based on the worshiping of yourself with your own happiness as the ultimate goal in life.

Bahahaha. Do you not realise that your family (whether religious or not), society and your friends ie context has nurtured/lead to the morals/principles everyone lives by?

It just so happened that you happened to believe in god. That is your context - it does not mean that those who have different contexts are not moral.

Pfft at least athiests have enough of a brain to realise that as humans we have the power to judge what is right and wrong, but informing ourselves rather than following the words of "God" which were handed down to humans via "prophets" or "cult leaders" as others like to call them.

And what, are you saying that humans cannot judge what is right and wrong, that only God can? Well if you have read the bible, you'd realise that you "God" has changed his mind several times (as humans do). But oh wait, he's supposed to supercede time. How could he possible ever correct himself when he is always right? And yet you, believing in such a being accuse good people who choose to live by their own principles of being "immoral".

We do not worship ourselves, we simply do what makes us happy. Just as you follow your beliefs and do things for the sake of reaching your "greater purpose", we follow our goals to make us happy. But of course you are too selfish as you are doing this so that you can meet "God".

I <3 you, Kwayera

 

[Name_Taken]

You continually have to resist the temptation to sin, do you not? What's the difference?

Again with inbuilt morality.

Becuase you're following YOUR morals. These are the rules you have decided for yourself, you're still refusing to submit or accept a higher authority. You're still in a state of self-worship.

Now we wouldn't have a dispute if the morals you decided for yourself were those that God has established for mankind, but we both know they are different. Hence it is impossible to be moral, without being religious.

So yeah, you can still be a lovely person, and morally upright in your own mind in regards to the rules you have set for yourself, but you still refuse to follow the rules He gave us. And so, in regards to true morality, you are as bad as the rest of us.

Now I don't follow His rules to the letter. I am incapable of doing so. But I don't reject His rules for diluted substitutes I myself have devised. Its ok not to be perfect, but its wrong for me to give up and settle down and be proud of my imperfections.

 

[Name_Taken]

I'm classified as an athiest and I'm in a selfless relationship. I'm committed for as long as she is committed. I'll love her for as long as she loves me. I don't expect anything in return, yet I'm not going to live in a loveless relationship.

Yet I have found a good balance between caring for her and caring for myself and even caring for others.

I only ask for money in situations where I'll end up out of pocket and may end up not being able to sustain myself (such as driving someone somewhere)...

I don't think about myslef enough I'm told... But I'd rather not.

I'd bet if she stopped giving you happiness, you would leave the relationship, and wouldn't selflessly remain devoted? Even if she hated you and caused you pain, would you continue loving her back?

 

[annabackwards]

Becuase you're following YOUR morals. These are the rules you have decided for yourself, you're still refusing to submit or accept a higher authority. You're still in a state of self-worship.

Now we wouldn't have a dispute if the morals you decided for yourself were those that God has established for mankind, but we both know they are different. Hence it is impossible to be moral, without being religious.

So yeah, you can still be a lovely person, and morally upright in your own mind in regards to the rules you have set for yourself, but you still refuse to follow the rules He gave us. And so, in regards to true morality, you are as bad as the rest of us.

Now I don't follow His rules to the letter. I am incapable of doing so. But I don't reject His rules for diluted substitutes I myself have devised. Its ok not to be perfect, but its wrong for me to give up and settle down and be proud of my imperfections.

Have you even researched what the beliefs of atheists are? They are pretty much the same as the main beliefs of all religions, bar the belief in a higher power.

You just admitted that you only take into account your God's morals, but you ultimately pick and decide which ones you will actualy follow. That exactly what every human, religious or not does.

Just because someone decides to not worship a higher power (or figment of a group's imagination), does not mean they worship themselves.

I'd bet if she stopped giving you happiness, you would leave the relationship, and wouldn't selflessly remain devoted? Even if she hated you and caused you pain, would you continue loving her back?

I know of many people who have had that happen to them and still continue to love the other person.

Loving another person does not have anything to do with believing in a God unless you choose it to.

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

I'd bet if she stopped giving you happiness, you would leave the relationship, and wouldn't selflessly remain devoted? Even if she hated you and caused you pain, would you continue loving her back?

No. Because I know that if she hated me and caused me pain... She infact wouldn't love me.

Plus, if it got to that stage, she'd be more likely to leave, not me.

 

[philphie]

I'd bet if she stopped giving you happiness, you would leave the relationship, and wouldn't selflessly remain devoted? Even if she hated you and caused you pain, would you continue loving her back?

why would you persist with someone who hates you? it is naive to think you can change a person or to stop them from feeling a certain emotion

 

[Name_Taken]

No. Because I know that if she hated me and caused me pain... She infact wouldn't love me.

Plus, if it got to that stage, she'd be more likely to leave, not me.

Yes, but true love doesn't require being loved back as justification to love in the first place.

The feeling of love brings happiness. You love her, she loves you, you're both happy, but when one becomes unhappy, your relationship inveitably falls apart.

Your relationship is based on your own happiness (ultimately a selfish persuit), and not, "true" love (which is ultimately a selfless one).

 

[Kwayera]

The athiest is unable to accept that they are not the ultimate authority in their lives.

Well, it's more that there is no ultimate authority in our lives. We are responsible for every thing we do, achieve, create, destroy.

Everything they do is aimed at the selfish goal of advancing their own self interests (not always at the direct expense of others), but living for oneself is a form of self-worship. Sort of like the man who lives for his career, worships money, it is his goal in life and becomes a sort of idol. The athiest idolises their own existence.

Isn't living "for" your God so you can go to heaven inherently in your own self-interest? You have an idol. An atheist doesn't have any.

And you know what? Shocking as that may sound, not having something to worship is okay.

True love, is a completely selfless relationship, wherby an individual may commit themselves entirely but does not demand, or expect anything in return.

How are atheists not capable of this?

So much "love" these days is simply based on oneself, because it makes one happy, because your partner makes you happy, makes you feel loved, because they're partner is rich (it happens, tho I'm not saying its common) ultimately it is still aimed at satisfying a person's own selfish desires.

They are incompatible.

*their

They're not incompatible. And a lot of "selfish desires" are actually evolved, instinctual and subconscious behaviours. You're again holding yourself and everyone else up to a pedestal that no one can achieve because we're animals, and we act like animals. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[philphie]

Yes, but true love doesn't require being loved back as justification to love in the first place.

The feeling of love brings happiness. You love her, she loves you, you're both happy, but when one becomes unhappy, your relationship inveitably falls apart.

Thus your relationship is based on your own happiness, and not, "true" love.

if she started hating him this would inherently mean she no longer wants love from the other person

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

Yes, but true love doesn't require being loved back as justification to love in the first place.

The feeling of love brings happiness. You love her, she loves you, you're both happy, but when one becomes unhappy, your relationship inveitably falls apart.

Your relationship is based on your own happiness (ultimately a selfish persuit), and not, "true" love (which is ultimately a selfless one).

You can still love someone, but leave them for your own wellbeing.

Tell me you'd stick with a relationship where your other half is abusive emotionally and physically, goes behind your back etc.? You can love them for as long as you need, but if the relationship is any form of violent... You get out of there.

Relationships are based on Happiness... Not love.

 

[ClockworkSoldier]

if she started hating him this would inherently mean she no longer wants love from the other person

Hear, hear.