Is ANU HONESTLY Good for Undergraduate Law? (1 Viewer)

[themonalisa]

I'm thinking of moving interstate next year to study at ANU for Law. Ive read all the reviews and international ratings and apparently ANU is great for research and post graduation work - but does it have the same quality education in its undergraduate degrees???

Should i bother re-shifting and relocating my life for the next 5 years in Australia's best university - when its only the best for postgrad and not undergrad?

 

[paulpang22288]

I have a similar struggle too, but it's for graduate law (ANU JD v USyd LLB).
If you don't have the kind of ATAR to get in USyd or UNSW, then yes ANU is your choice and you can brag to your friends about it's international rankings despite its non-existence in international reputation.

Answering your question, it is still a pretty good law school. There should be minimal differences in terms of the quality of undergraduate law, whether it be LLB or JD. But if you want to get a job in big cities like Sydney you have to do very well to fight with graduates from notable unis like USyd or UNSW, who might not have worked as hard as you did but would achieve similar or even better goals relative to you due to mere prestige.

It is an unfair world dictated by a monopolized educational system (in this case, oligopolized).

Oh by the way, ANU teaches law related more to ACT than NSW or VIC if it's not common law or federal/ parliamentarily related. Yes I know this is common sense but some people might forget this point.

And by the way, USyd has a reputation of having Australia's best academics yet teach absolutely jackshit and leave all the learning by the students as they are "smart" enough to self-study through the whole fucking degree. That's what I heard. But hey, hearsay cannot be trusted

I used to be a pro- ANU JD person, but lately I've leaned towards USyd LLB. As the deadline creeps nearer and nearer it would be more and more scarier to make the ultimate decision.

 

[Frigid]

I think, ultimately, if you've got an offer from a Go8 law schoolhttp://www.go8.edu.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=15&Itemid=181 in your home state (other than NSW), there's very little point moving to ACT to attend ANU.

If you live in NSW, and are comparing ANU against UTS, Macquarie, UOW etc, I think ANU holds its own very strongly against those universities.

 

[themonalisa]

yer thanks guys i see where your coming from.

Im hoping to focus on international law , and apparently ANU is the best for that - undergrad or post grad, compared to other GO8 unis.

what do you think?

 

[flamearrows]

yer thanks guys i see where your coming from.

Im hoping to focus on international law , and apparently ANU is the best for that - undergrad or post grad, compared to other GO8 unis.

what do you think?

Any particular strengths that a law faculty has fades in significance compared to the prestige/reputation of the institution.

I honestly don't think ANU is worth moving to if you can go to a Go8 law school. If you're comparing ANU to, say, UWS or Macq, then jump in.

 

[dste6]

I would really advise that you study in the jurisdiction that you will be practicing in initially, ie where you will be looking for grad work.

If your interested in international law (this is very broad term), i would advice looking at the electives that each school offers in this area. These will be the only real differentiators for this purpose.

At the end of the day, I believe that squabbles about international reputation of any Australian law school are moot. Like it or not, we ARE a back-water when it comes to international business and legal community, particularly outside Asia. You will not impress any large international body, be it the Hague, McKinsey or Baker & Mckenzie with ANU or USyd on your CV; they have plenty of applicants from prominent US and UK law schools.

This is not to denigrate Australian education or dampen your spirits, but you just have to be realistic: Australian law schools are not prominent internationally, and your international prospects will not differ substantially whether you go to ANU or USyd. They're both fine, its just that neither will put you at any particular advantage internationally.

The solution? Your best bet, if your serious about international commercial or criminal law, is to go to the law school here that will put you in the best position to get great marks, do the electives you are interested in. Then go do an LLM at a school that leads in international law (NYU, LSE, Cambridge, Leiden etc).

 

[UAI30orless]

ANU is an excellent university.

They have vicious law markers though, tougher than UNSW by experience.

 

[themonalisa]

thats discouraging.

 

[paulpang22288]

yer thanks guys i see where your coming from.

Im hoping to focus on international law , and apparently ANU is the best for that - undergrad or post grad, compared to other GO8 unis.

what do you think?

ANU started to have International Law as a compulsory subject WAY BEFORE USyd (USyd started of Gillian Triggs became Dean).

Have you already gotten an offer from ANU, USyd or UNSW? Or are you still in high school till end of this year?

I got into USyd. Didn't really care about what to focus. I just cbf-ed moving from Sydney to Canberra to do a law degree. Just cbf-ed. And as to UNSW (which I also got an offer from), I have this negative skeptical feeling about a law degree (Juris Doctor) requiring THAT MUCH marketing advertisements all over the campus, Bus stops, Buses, stations and glamorous info sessions at the Hilton Hotel.


Good luck themonalisa and happy law degree choosing!

 

[bryandawn]

ANU is in the Go8, but I preferenced MQ just over ANU, this year they had very similar cutoffs for the combo I chose to do.
Just because a law school is in the Go8 doesn't necessarily make it better in undergraduate law. I was also offered a place at the Adelaide Law School which is in the Go8, but finally decided to defer it. I had a look at its curriculum though, and I find more electives offered by MQ compared to Adelaide.

 

[paulpang22288]

ANU is in the Go8, but I preferenced MQ just over ANU, this year they had very similar cutoffs for the combo I chose to do.
Just because a law school is in the Go8 doesn't necessarily make it better in undergraduate law. I was also offered a place at the Adelaide Law School which is in the Go8, but finally decided to defer it. I had a look at its curriculum though, and I find more electives offered by MQ compared to Adelaide.

True a Go8 University does not render it to consist of a good law school. But neither does UAI cut-offs nor the abundance of electives could reasonably deduce that the particular law school is better. You still haven't really explained how MQ is better UNLESS:

1. You like those electives in MQ more (but doesn't mean you can do them, some quotas may apply to popular ones)

2. You live in Sydney and Adelaide or Canberra is just way too far away. Which is my reason to study at USyd.



(Below are some facts but SLIGHTLY off-topic
People always argue that international rankings such as THES-QS do not matter because it's based quite a proportion of rankings on RESEARCH. And undergraduate law has nothing to do with RESEARCH. It's all COURSEWORK.

This is partially true. Those who do research and submit their peer-reviewed stuff as publication works are usually PhD, Masters (Research) students AS WELL AS MOST (if not ALL) academics in the law school. So those universities such as ANU and USyd that do well in research (THES: 17 and 35 respectively) are at the forefront of legal expertise. THEN they usually (mostly) teach what they've researched in compulsory courses as well as electives, where they SPECIALIZE AT. Students get to learn, or at least are introduced to, what they have just publicized academically to the whole world. But at the end of the day though, it all depends whether the lecturers or professors actually BOTHER teaching you the stuff they've researched in. Otherwise, you just get what is in the textbooks.



This is not just a law thing, it applies to all subjects.

 

[bryandawn]

If I could get into USyd, I would take up the offer. But then I also know a prolific researcher may not be able to teach as clearly as some other academics.
Yes, I prefer MQ's electives, they interest me more. And yes Adelaide and Canberra are too far, moving can be a hassle.

 

[flamearrows]

So those universities such as ANU and USyd that do well in research (THES: 17 and 35 respectively) are at the forefront of legal expertise.

Actually, it means that they're at the forefront of academic expertise.

I'd much prefer a barrister who has a specialisation vaguely in the area of law he's teaching than someone with a Ph. D. in the same area. All of the best teachers I've had don't really have a massive academic background.

 

[melsc]

Actually, it means that they're at the forefront of academic expertise.

I'd much prefer a barrister who has a specialisation vaguely in the area of law he's teaching than someone with a Ph. D. in the same area. All of the best teachers I've had don't really have a massive academic background.

This, my best academics have been those who have practiced, there are so many I've had in the past that have been hired for their research etc and they know so much stuff but in the end they just can't teach what they know...it can be very frustrating

 

[paulpang22288]

This, my best academics have been those who have practiced, there are so many I've had in the past that have been hired for their research etc and they know so much stuff but in the end they just can't teach what they know...it can be very frustrating

NOW THAT, is very true!

 

[Deathless]

Yeah but lest we forget USyd and UMelb are the second best universities after ANU (in terms of international ranks) and they're around 50 something whilst ANU is 16. Obviously ANU > better. I'm not sure about law, but in terms of prestige, ANU is much better than USyd (which is lower than UMelb by one).

 

[jtyler]

You do know what prestige means, right?

 

[rx34]

Lol it's clearly obvious that he doesn't.

 

[Frigid]

obviously anu > better. I'm not sure about law...

q.e.d.

 

[paulpang22288]

Yeah but lest we forget USyd and UMelb are the second best universities after ANU (in terms of international ranks) and they're around 50 something whilst ANU is 16. Obviously ANU > better. I'm not sure about law, but in terms of prestige, ANU is much better than USyd (which is lower than UMelb by one).

Sydney, UNSW and ANU all accepted me into graduate law programs, Sydney as LLB, UNSW and ANU as JDs.

Guess what, I chose Sydney coz of prestige as well as convenience (more emphasis on the latter actually). NOT ANU. Yet again prestige of the law school does not mean it's a good law school. It's the name, history, connections, etc.

Here's are 2 simple tests I made up on the spot to test for prestige:

1. THE CONTROL: Ask any law student at X Law School, where X be any University name, which law school is the best (or would you prefer to be in), the law student at X Law School would most probably (I emphasize most probably, coz of biased preferences, loyalty to the uni, ignorance to other unis etc.) reply that X Law School is overall the preferred choice.
THE EXPERIMENT: Now, ask a group of ANY random yet reasonably knowledgeable people, such as a typical mother with kids who went to uni/ high school, or any non-law student or friend, law clerk, family solicitor who did your dad's property conveyancing etc, WHICH Law School would they pick if they were to advise a friend/ oneself, to attend law school.

WHATEVER THEY PICK, should be the one with the most prestige.


2. Go wikipedia famous lawyers, judges, politicians (or any famous law related people) which law school did they graduated from (ONLY FOR obtaining the LLB, NOT the BA or BJuris, Engineering degrees or LLM coz you're not looking at other faculties or post-law degrees). Which ever law school gets mentioned the most wins.


Neither test 1 or test 2 by itself is conclusive, nor is the identical solution of both test 1 and test 2 conclusive either. BUT if Both test 1 and 2 points to the same law school, you're PRETTY MUCH SURE that that law school has the most prestige. And I'd also assure you that ANU won't be the answer, at least not for test 2.