Any point transferring from UWS Law to MQ Law? (1 Viewer)

[rajputsingh]

I do care due to the fact that it is these students who a representing the uni. Obviously, I am not referring to anyone on this site as I highly doubt the types of students im talking about even know this site exists. I was just venting frustration due to the fact that I know the law program at UWS is exceptionally good. It provides reat practical experience and the lecturers provide real commercial advice that is useful for further life eg Theresa the Torts and Crim seminar leader was the best I had ever seen. She constantly gave up to date and relevant examples to emphasis the concepts. She provided information that will be actually used in practicing. However my problem is that these students are forming the representative view about the uni. People when considering UWS refer to these students. They refer to the slackers adn that is why the uni has such a bad reputation. I am not a UWS hater in fact I am a great supporter of it. But i can not and will not be a supporter of the uni allowing students who are detrimental to the uni and its reputation.

 

[rx34]

However my problem is that these students are forming the representative view about the uni. People when considering UWS refer to these students. They refer to the slackers adn that is why the uni has such a bad reputation. I am not a UWS hater in fact I am a great supporter of it. But i can not and will not be a supporter of the uni allowing students who are detrimental to the uni and its reputation.

Hmmmm, you have to understand these kind of students exist everywhere. I understand you dislike them, in fact, every hardworking student would. There might be more of them in UWS compared to USyd because of the leniency of bonus points.

You can't change peoples' perceptions of UWS. And there's not much you can do about it. It's the university's policy to admit what students it wants. You can only sit down and accept it. If being with these students is so unbearable, you can transfer. But if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't care. Rather, I would shine and excel and be the exception in the class.

 

[sean1990]

mate, i feel your frustration... trust me.

But at the end of the day, 1 person hit the nail on the head in this thread.

They will be filtered out if they don't put the hard yards in.

It does not matter how u get to uni, not every person who got a 90 in their uai is better than a student (who worked their arse off) to get an 80.

Work ethic is a BIG part at uni, and if i were you i'd be happy to have people with lower UAI's who work their arse off to be there and keep there place and to be honest, I actually think the people you are referring to are the ones who probably got a higher UAI and think they can "wing" their way through uni based on their intelligence.

Soon they will realise it takes more than natural brilliance to succeed at uni. particularly when it comes to actually reading a text book.


But saying these people are all in the 80s is stupid because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how you get into uni, it matters what you do at uni.

 

[rajputsingh]

They shouldn't need to be filtered out because they shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

[Foodie]

Yeah, I don't see why you would care if other students don't care about their results and whatnot. At the end of the day you're there for yourself, there will always be bludgers who may end up with you in group assignments just like in high school.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree with rajputsingh somewhat.

Being around slackers and bludgers detracted from my university experience quite significantly. I want to be around hard-working, diligent, and bright people who will help alight my competitive spirit and help foster ideas. Of course in the end, it's up to me to do well and what have you, but being around stiffer competition will definitely better equip me for the real world.

I'm not saying that all UWS students are lazy, but the frequency of these apathetic people (from my experience), is much higher at UWS vs. other unis with higher cut-off marks. I'm actually speaking specifically about the UWS business. I've come across a lot of bright people doing law.

FYI, the first half of degree is filled with Pass grades but I cleaned up my act during the second half and got only D/H grades, so I guess I could be considered as one of the said lazy people that I mentioned earlier

FYI#1, currently enrolled in MQ Law but if I get an offer from UWS in the second round, I'd probably take it up. Originally, I wanted to go MQ because of the beautiful campus / 'change of scene', and supposedly 'better known' law program, but after reading how there's not much difference and that its more philosophy-driven, i'm starting to think UWS law is the better option.

 

[bryandawn]

Recently, the Macquarie University Law Society actually put up a petition addressed to the Vice-Chancellor on its facebook page for students to sign so that the underfunding problem of Macquarie Law School may be addressed.
I don't think the Macquarie Law School should be under the Faculty of Arts, neither do I think the School of Law of UWS should be under the College of Business. If they are an independent faculty each, then perhaps they would more freedom in relation to their finance.
MQ's Vice-Chancellor wants Macquarie to be in the top 8 research universities by 2014, basically, to compete with the Go8 unis, but I see some weaknesses here: MQ doesn't have a medical school that offers MBBS, though it does offer post graduate advanced medicine course, and if MQ's law school is indeed suffering from underfunding, then it will not help MQ's reputation.
Having spent my first year at UWS, I can say I've learned real skills there, especially from the moot bail assessment, it is a law school that has some teaching potentials, but dare I say, the overall reputation of the university might have pulled down the reputation of its law school.

 

[schtrevey]

Yeah Foodie, I've met some people doing law this year and they seem like great people. But I'm concerned about the business/commerce component because I heard it's not very good and much more crowded.

 

[sean1990]

Yeah Foodie, I've met some people doing law this year and they seem like great people. But I'm concerned about the business/commerce component because I heard it's not very good and much more crowded.

1 of the reasons i did the transfer.

 

[McWombo]

Wow, I'm surprised this thread is still going. And now it's covering some interesting areas.

I have to agree with rajputsingh on this one. The bad students shouldn't need to be weeded out. I don't agree that they simply shouldn't be let in to the uni, as I probably wouldn't have gotten in with my grades if that was the case. But I do think there should be more hurdles for them to jump to show that they're serious. Also, if the LLB program were replaced across the board with the Juris Doctor program, I think a lot of these problems would go away.

Some of you mentioned that these people will be weeded out by the end. I disagree. You don't have to be of a very high intelligence to complete a degree these days, even in law. Anyone buffoon can stumble their way through unit after unit, occasionally failing, but mostly scraping through with passes. Yes, you get these people at every uni, but I'd say moreso at UWS.

Rajputsingh, I hear you about the people in the library. They just don't get it, nor care, that libraries are supposed to be quiet areas, and at most you can have quiet discussion in the appropriate areas. But upstairs where the computers and group rooms are, it's like a zoo. There is very little work going on up there and security should get involved and kick these people out. It's hard enough trying to find an empty desk to sit and study.

It's even worse when you find yourself unable to hear the lecturer because there is a row of morons behind you having a loud discussion about what they're doing Friday night.

Also agree with you about Theresa. My favourite lecturer so far.

 

[Bananaberry]

Why care about other students? You should be at uni concentrating on yourself.

 

[dude01]

Wow, I'm surprised this thread is still going. And now it's covering some interesting areas.

I have to agree with rajputsingh on this one. The bad students shouldn't need to be weeded out. I don't agree that they simply shouldn't be let in to the uni, as I probably wouldn't have gotten in with my grades if that was the case. But I do think there should be more hurdles for them to jump to show that they're serious. Also, if the LLB program were replaced across the board with the Juris Doctor program, I think a lot of these problems would go away.

Some of you mentioned that these people will be weeded out by the end. I disagree. You don't have to be of a very high intelligence to complete a degree these days, even in law. Anyone buffoon can stumble their way through unit after unit, occasionally failing, but mostly scraping through with passes. Yes, you get these people at every uni, but I'd say moreso at UWS.

Rajputsingh, I hear you about the people in the library. They just don't get it, nor care, that libraries are supposed to be quiet areas, and at most you can have quiet discussion in the appropriate areas. But upstairs where the computers and group rooms are, it's like a zoo. There is very little work going on up there and security should get involved and kick these people out. It's hard enough trying to find an empty desk to sit and study.

It's even worse when you find yourself unable to hear the lecturer because there is a row of morons behind you having a loud discussion about what they're doing Friday night.

Also agree with you about Theresa. My favourite lecturer so far.

How far are you into the law degree? Your comments about "stumbling their way through a law degree" is completely invalid if all you've experienced is the first couple of years of the combined law program. Wait till 4th and 5th year, the units are very challenging and someone who doesn't study will not pass. Some subjects like equity have a pretty big fail rate (50% so I've heard).

 

[McWombo]

How far are you into the law degree? Your comments about "stumbling their way through a law degree" is completely invalid if all you've experienced is the first couple of years of the combined law program. Wait till 4th and 5th year, the units are very challenging and someone who doesn't study will not pass. Some subjects like equity have a pretty big fail rate (50% so I've heard).

That's not the way I see it. I'm doing grad law full time and in 2nd year. When I said that, I didn't mean they'd get through without doing ANY work. Of course you have to do SOME work. I simply meant that there WILL be people finishing law degrees who did very little work, got through each unit with barely a pass, or doing units twice to get through. From what I've seen and heard this is more prevalent at UWS.

 

[Bananaberry]

Well they are the ones who wont get good jobs, not you

 

[17032041]

i heard Usyd have a really good syllabus there and that usyd had apparently bought it from UWS. but you never know if its true.

Im at UWS atm (I got an offer from mac) but I would myself just stick with UWS rather than mac, I think theres no point in transferring... as mentioned above perhaps their law fac is suffering.... perhaps think about trans. to UNSW.

 

[Monstar]

Its up to you man..

In my eyes MQ and UWS are a few rungs lower than UNSW and Usyd. MQ law is what i'd like to label a sinking ship but having read through the thread, you'd probably be quite familiar with the problems plaguing the law department. At the end of the day, UWS and MQ law will be in the same; you'll be constantly defending its reputation on websites and probably from some kids in real life.

Moral of the story; MQ's rep only extends to business and the broad umbrella of arts. This is a major point you should consider... cause if you are not gong to venture into law or are using law as a vehicle into more prestigious jobs such as investment banking then it is my recommendation that you attend macquarie. This is under the assumption you are studying Bcomm/Blaw.

I cant speak on your job opportunities as a law student pursuing a career in law but I follow the happenings of mq law ..so that proportion of my opinion should be considered 'useful'

 

[flamearrows]

Moral of the story; MQ's rep only extends to business and the broad umbrella of arts. This is a major point you should consider... cause if you are not gong to venture into law or are using law as a vehicle into more prestigious jobs such as investment banking then it is my recommendation that you attend macquarie. This is under the assumption you are studying Bcomm/Blaw.

This is harsh but true - you will seriously struggle to get into investment banking/management consulting with a degree from UWS. You would need to be seriously exceptional.

This follows pretty logically. If the banks are interested in the top 10% of students at USyd/UNSW, they're probably interested in something like the top 1 or 2% of students at UWS/Mac.

From memory, there were more UWS students doing top-tier clerkships than Mac (there may not even have been any from Mac in the big 6?) but I don't know if that says anything.

 

[LA88]

From memory, there were more UWS students doing top-tier clerkships than Mac (there may not even have been any from Mac in the big 6?) but I don't know if that says anything.

I take it you're only talking about investment banking here, because if you're not, you're sorely mistaken. I only encountered two UWS students during the 2009/10 clerkship period at top tier law firms. On the other hand, I know at least 16 mac students who secured top-tier clerkships.

Sure, the number isn't glamorous, but it's higher than other unis out there.

 

[flamearrows]

I take it you're only talking about investment banking here, because if you're not, you're sorely mistaken. I only encountered two UWS students during the 2009/10 clerkship period at top tier law firms. On the other hand, I know at least 16 mac students who secured top-tier clerkships.

Sure, the number isn't glamorous, but it's higher than other unis out there.

Yeah? Which firms?

I just don't remember meeting any.

 

[LA88]

Yeah? Which firms?

I just don't remember meeting any.

One at Malles
Two at Freehills
Two at Blakes
Three at Minters
Four at AAR
Four at Clutz

 

[Monstar]

I take it you're only talking about investment banking here, because if you're not, you're sorely mistaken. I only encountered two UWS students during the 2009/10 clerkship period at top tier law firms. On the other hand, I know at least 16 mac students who secured top-tier clerkships.

Sure, the number isn't glamorous, but it's higher than other unis out there.

Mate, it must be law.. cause there is thoroughly next to no chance of a UWS kid being at a bulge bracket bank. Sorry UWS, not trying to put you down but its true. Even macq kids are few and far between.

EDIT: yeah it was law.