Where do you sit on the Political Compass? (2 Viewers)

[cosmo kramer]

libertarians/anarchists/marxists/etc seem to be conspicuously absent from age groups over about 25 years old

why dont you guys just get over the juvenile opinions now and save yourself the trouble of doing it later

 

[SylviaB]

libertarians/anarchists/etc seem to be conspicuously absent from age groups over about 25 years old

That's because people are idiots

 

[cosmo kramer]

i like how you edited out marxists as if anarchism isnt as retarded as marxism is

 

[SylviaB]

i like how you edited out marxists as if anarchism isnt as retarded as marxism is

"anarcho-capitalism" makes sense.
Marxism doesn't.

 

[Slidey]

Will someone interpret this?

It means you're a fuckhead.

 

[cosmo kramer]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

"Blocking material is not considered to be censorship."
- Senator Stephen Conroy, speaking about his planned Internet censorship scheme.

 

[badquinton304]

libertarians/anarchists/marxists/etc seem to be conspicuously absent from age groups over about 25 years old

why dont you guys just get over the juvenile opinions now and save yourself the trouble of doing it later

Yes, because your views are so realistic and sensible.

 

[cosmo kramer]

yeah actually my views are mostly based on pragmatic considerations tbh

others are based on default positions inferred from a comprehensive understanding of human biological differences, rarely do i hold a view based on some ideological gobbeldygook

then again badquinton304 totally knows best

 

[Graney]

How many <25y.o. libertarians/anarchists/marxists do you encounter in RL, outside of select cliques at Go8 unis?

 

[BeeemER]

Am I stupid for not knowing what a marxist is?

 

[cosmo kramer]

How many <25y.o. libertarians/anarchists/marxists do you encounter in RL, outside of select cliques at Go8 unis?

pretty few

ive noticed that marxism/anarchism are views that tend to be held by intellectually curious and intelligent operators who are nonetheless generally brainwashed, incapable of understanding the importance of pragmatic considerations and have a very dogmatic, almost concrete, but dedicated view of the world. libertarians are very similar, but because their views at their foundation aren't really that dumb, at least not compared to marxism/anarchism etc, they're a lot more tolerable

most people ive known who were marxists/anarchists in their early days have completely grown out of it at this point in time

 

[badquinton304]

yeah actually my views are mostly based on pragmatic considerations tbh

others are based on default positions inferred from a comprehensive understanding of human biological differences, rarely do i hold a view based on some ideological gobbeldygook

then again badquinton304 totally knows best

Of course it is pragmatic if you assume people are not going to get pissed off and kill for trying to wipe them out, either that or in the process of wiping out (or giving decentives for the reproduction of undesireables) a group of people, your own turn on you, civil war is real productive. A pragmatist takes into account how people will react to your actions and ideas, an idea that is too radical regardless of wether or not it is rationally effective can be terrible if it rocks the boat too much. For your shit to be pragmatic you need to pretend that everyone will be thinking along the same lines as you.

 

[cosmo kramer]

you do actually make a good point, but many of my views I feel are INHERENTLY pragmatic or at least are more strongly grounded in reality than most alternatives; when it comes to if they will ever be implemented, perhaps not (that would require certain conditions that are not present right now), but i'm not that unrealistically optimistic and imprudent to know that they don't tick off a lot of people (i don't talk about them to many people)

in implementation, they would likely be quite effective (i wouldn't believe them otherwise), but expecting them to be implemented is not realistic (given current conditions), nor is it anything i do; i would have conceded that without you even pointing it out

when it comes to things like anarchism and obviously marxism, it's a joke to say that they would be effective in implementation. libertarianism i don't really know

 

[Graney]

pretty few

What do you think about individual liberty?

Under what circumstances should the interests of the collective violently impose limitations on the actions of individuals?

 

[cosmo kramer]

well there are many situations where that is called for graney

liberty is definitely a nice and desirable thing

ideally it would be nice if we could all have it as much as possible

in practice however, this does not work for large swaths of people who themselves depend upon discipline and others to manage their own existences

others downright need the stick to keep them in order; do-it-yourself morality is absolutely disasterous for many people, particularly negroes; give the negro an inch and he'll try to take a mile

and of course there are other considerations that call for curtailing of liberty

policy that governs a society should try to keep the society in question intact so that it can survive in a manner that is at its maximum pleasant for its productives and remain provident enough to be pleasant and defended for its future productives

at its core this requires a judicious, far-thinking, dedicated leadership

the sad reality is that all societies tend to lose this when the second generation of leaders enters power

i don't think there's an effective way of ensuring that this doesn't happen

 

[cosmo kramer]

ideally, a society need not require the STATE to regulate behavior but organic strictures

when this is not possible (and for many, it is never possible) the coercive power of administration is necessary to perform this role

 

[TacoTerrorist]

imposed no, consumers have the ultimate power in what gets produced. ever heard of supply and demand?

I think you've misunderstood what I wrote or I didn't communicate it properly. Supply and demand has nothing to do with the agenda of business to constantly bombard people with advertising and mindless media drivel.

money is the best motivator for jobs. why the fuck would people want to be bankers or lawyers. because you get a fuck load of money.

you work hard in the belief that you will be given a raise or promoted, which you guessed it means you get more fing money.

The link I gave provided strong counter evidence to this claim. I will reiterate again, yes, some people really are in certain careers just for the money, which is ultimately mentally unhealthy. Greed, the constant drive for wealth, is the byproduct of a society that equates income with personal merit. It is not an intrinsic trait in most people, and humanity has always been better off working cooperatively (read: collectively) than competitively. Hell, humans have evolved to work cooperatively. We are intelligent as fuck and can verbally communicate for a reason.

people don't do things for the greater good. they do it for money, power, respect and if you are a man, women.

also people choose those Careers because they weren't smart enough to be a doctor or lawyer. or its just what they wanted to do it, hence the beauty of capitalism if you work hard you can choose what job you want.

Huge generalisation, see above response. I would bet that most maths teachers could become engineers, most English teachers could become lawyers, and most science teachers could become scientists. Not everybody chooses wealth over emotional wellbeing.

 

[withoutaface]

The link I gave provided strong counter evidence to this claim. I will reiterate again, yes, some people really are in certain careers just for the money, which is ultimately mentally unhealthy. Greed, the constant drive for wealth, is the byproduct of a society that equates income with personal merit.

Look up opportunity cost.

It is not an intrinsic trait in most people, and humanity has always been better off working cooperatively (read: collectively) than competitively.

Citation needed.

Hell, humans have evolved to work cooperatively.

Competition within industry doesn't preclude cooperation outside of it. Look up 'I, Pencil'.

Huge generalisation, see above response. I would bet that most maths teachers could become engineers, most English teachers could become lawyers, and most science teachers could become scientists. Not everybody chooses wealth over emotional wellbeing.

But you just said that they did, and that it was bad for their mental health. Either society is filled with unhappy rich people, or people are free to pursue careers which fulfill them in other ways, and they are thus not as bound by the chains of the capitalist system as you might like to believe.

EDIT: FTR mine is something like this:

 

[TacoTerrorist]

Look up opportunity cost.

I don't see how opportunity cost relates to any of the sentences you quoted. Please elaborate on this.

Citation needed.

See the Prisoner's dilemma. The competitiveness inherent in capitalism does not benefit humanity as a whole. Sure, it does and will benefit a select minority, but certainly not most people exposed to the system's abuses. Workers in cooperatives are clearly better off than their counterparts in businesses and corporations, both fiscally and emotionally. http://www.isthmuseng.com/aboutus/workerownedcoop/workerownedcoop.aspx

But you just said that they did, and that it was bad for their mental health. Either society is filled with unhappy rich people, or people are free to pursue careers which fulfill them in other ways, and they are thus not as bound by the chains of the capitalist system as you might like to believe.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

[withoutaface]

See the Prisoner's dilemma. The competitiveness inherent in capitalism does not benefit humanity as a whole. Sure, it does and will benefit a select minority, but certainly not most people exposed to the system's abuses.

There's a prisoner's dilemma situation applicable within the industry, but not across broader society. If I like widgets the fact that there are two widget makers out there can only be a good thing from my perspective of getting good quality and value for money.

Workers in cooperatives are clearly better off than their counterparts in businesses and corporations, both fiscally and emotionally. Isthmus Engineering�-�Worker Owned Cooperative

Then why are cooperatives not more common?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

I'm saying that if there are teachers and such who decide to take a career for reasons other than money, and enjoy that career, then the capitalist system is not as constrictive as you make it out to be. Maybe people choose to be slaves to the new world order.