CADETSHIPS 2012 Discussion Thread (4 Viewers)

[LOLcadet]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

you said it's 4 courses x 2 semesters x 3 years =24 courses in 3 years
but generally cadets do 2 courses per semester so doesnt that mean they will take 6 years?
and how many contact hours of bcommerce did you do after work while at uni??

 

[seremify007]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

you said it's 4 courses x 2 semesters x 3 years =24 courses in 3 years
but generally cadets do 2 courses per semester so doesnt that mean they will take 6 years?
and how many contact hours of bcommerce did you do after work while at uni??

1. Please reread the same post that you are quoting from.
2. Each subject typically involves 3 to 4 contact hours per week depending on length of the lecture (some are 2 hours, some are 3), number of tutorials and potentially lab sessions. This does not include anything which does not have a mandated timeslot such as group work, online courses/classes, etc.

 

[krizbro]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

one question seremify .. does the cadetship, with say one of the big4, give you a huge advantage for the graduate program ? is this always so ?

 

[jaychouf4n]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Sorry about butting in. Generally, at the end of the cadetship you are immediately offered a graduate position within the firm. So, you do not need to go through the application process, rather it is an automatic acceptance.

 

[seremify007]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

one question seremify .. does the cadetship, with say one of the big4, give you a huge advantage for the graduate program ? is this always so ?

Typically yes because you will not be returning as a normal graduate- you will be rejoining as an experienced graduate or accountant (or whatever title the company gives you), or in some firms/companies, a senior accountant/associate (or equivalent). This is the key difference (and benefit) of these programs over coops whereby you still end up joining as a fresh grad with no special treatment or benefit.

Sorry about butting in. Generally, at the end of the cadetship you are immediately offered a graduate position within the firm. So, you do not need to go through the application process, rather it is an automatic acceptance.

I'd say it depends on the firm/company in question. At least in my experience/knowledge from both my own cadetship and my peers, the graduate position is sometimes offered at the end of the full time work component of the cadetship, but it can also be offered in the six months leading up to your expected completion of university. That being said between the two dates you would have signed a contract to receive the grant (in exchange for graduate employment) but this doesn't technically guarantee you a graduate role.

 

[jaychouf4n]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

I was hoping whether you could give me a few tips about performing well in cadetships, given your prior experience.

I recently accepted a general insurance cadetship at Zurich Financial Services, will begin in January 2012.

Also, did you have any tips in performing well in the cadetship. I am definitely looking to working there in a long term arrangement, so I was hoping to use the cadetship to fast track my career to becoming an actuary. I was hoping you could give me some tips on how to move ahead, so that when I accept my graduate position in 2 years, I will be ahead of other graduating Actuarial students. (i.e. being allocated more responsibility and moving up the ranks quickly)

 

[seremify007]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Also, did you have any tips in performing well in the cadetship. I am definitely looking to working there in a long term arrangement, so I was hoping to use the cadetship to fast track my career to becoming an actuary. I was hoping you could give me some tips on how to move ahead, so that when I accept my graduate position in 2 years, I will be ahead of other graduating Actuarial students. (i.e. being allocated more responsibility and moving up the ranks quickly)

Obviously each firm/company is different with different priorities and cultures. In my experience in a Big 4 firm, there are clear guidelines on what is expected from people across the various grades. For a trainee for example, the requirements include being proactive about seeking coaching, keeping seniors informed, being independent where possible, etc... and as you move up towards becoming a senior, the expectations change from being a learner, to a do-er (e.g. to drive work independently) and a manager (e.g. to coach junior staff, manage client relationships, budget for jobs, book resources, scope out work, etc), etc...

So based on this, my suggestion is to figure out what is expected from you in your role as well as what the expectations are of the role ahead. If you can prove you are achieving that before you reach that level, you help cement your business case for promotion. Obviously this is harder if the role you are aspiring to is outside the normal career progression path (e.g. another division/different role) but doing well in your current role and showing you are a must-have employee, will help make transfers easier too.

 

[determine]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Just to add to this discussion.. I've been reading and noticed that quite a few of the posts say that cadets typically do 2 subjects per semester etc, studying bachelor of commerce/business and all that. Thought I'd add a bit of diversity to the discussion to share my experiences! I'm currently undertaking a cadetship as well (I'm finishing my first year of university now) and working full-time. However, unlike 99% of other cadets in accounting firms, I am doing a commerce/law degree while working in the accounting firm, and I am also studying at university full-time too! 3 subjects per semester. I received a scholarship simultaneously to study and full-time uni was a requirement of this scholarship, so I haven't really had a choice on this front, but sadly I have to maintain a distinction average too which is quite an ask given that I am also working full-time and as of the first semester in 2012 I will be beginning my law subjects (I decided to dedicate my first year to commerce only so that I can at least ease into my job, because I know how tough law is going to be while trying to work at the same time)! Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth...

 

[seremify007]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Just to add to this discussion.. I've been reading and noticed that quite a few of the posts say that cadets typically do 2 subjects per semester etc, studying bachelor of commerce/business and all that. Thought I'd add a bit of diversity to the discussion to share my experiences! I'm currently undertaking a cadetship as well (I'm finishing my first year of university now) and working full-time. However, unlike 99% of other cadets in accounting firms, I am doing a commerce/law degree while working in the accounting firm, and I am also studying at university full-time too! 3 subjects per semester. I received a scholarship simultaneously to study and full-time uni was a requirement of this scholarship, so I haven't really had a choice on this front, but sadly I have to maintain a distinction average too which is quite an ask given that I am also working full-time and as of the first semester in 2012 I will be beginning my law subjects (I decided to dedicate my first year to commerce only so that I can at least ease into my job, because I know how tough law is going to be while trying to work at the same time)! Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth...

Wow that is an impressive effort on your part and definitely not the norm. That being said, at least in my time, a lot of us did overload and do 3 subjects a semester just to give us a bit of buffer in the final year or so that they could finish one semester earlier and travel the world.

 

[Azure]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Just to add to this discussion.. I've been reading and noticed that quite a few of the posts say that cadets typically do 2 subjects per semester etc, studying bachelor of commerce/business and all that. Thought I'd add a bit of diversity to the discussion to share my experiences! I'm currently undertaking a cadetship as well (I'm finishing my first year of university now) and working full-time. However, unlike 99% of other cadets in accounting firms, I am doing a commerce/law degree while working in the accounting firm, and I am also studying at university full-time too! 3 subjects per semester. I received a scholarship simultaneously to study and full-time uni was a requirement of this scholarship, so I haven't really had a choice on this front, but sadly I have to maintain a distinction average too which is quite an ask given that I am also working full-time and as of the first semester in 2012 I will be beginning my law subjects (I decided to dedicate my first year to commerce only so that I can at least ease into my job, because I know how tough law is going to be while trying to work at the same time)! Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth...

I have to say, this is really impressive. I'm sure you'll be fine when you begin studying your law subjects.

 

[jaychouf4n]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Just to add to this discussion.. I've been reading and noticed that quite a few of the posts say that cadets typically do 2 subjects per semester etc, studying bachelor of commerce/business and all that. Thought I'd add a bit of diversity to the discussion to share my experiences! I'm currently undertaking a cadetship as well (I'm finishing my first year of university now) and working full-time. However, unlike 99% of other cadets in accounting firms, I am doing a commerce/law degree while working in the accounting firm, and I am also studying at university full-time too! 3 subjects per semester. I received a scholarship simultaneously to study and full-time uni was a requirement of this scholarship, so I haven't really had a choice on this front, but sadly I have to maintain a distinction average too which is quite an ask given that I am also working full-time and as of the first semester in 2012 I will be beginning my law subjects (I decided to dedicate my first year to commerce only so that I can at least ease into my job, because I know how tough law is going to be while trying to work at the same time)! Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth...

I'm just curious about the logistics of full timing university with full time work. I'm also studying a law degree, and I was planning to part time law after I get a graduate job. (After I graduate commerce)

Also, what is the social life like, full timing university with full time work?

Is it possible to full time university with full time law. At UNSW Law, each course is 4h a week, so full time law would consist of 16h, spread over 5 days. (~3h a day after work) This would mean that you'd have to be at university from 6-9 everyday after working a 9-5 shift at work. (I don't know whether it is similar with UTS Law)

 

[krizbro]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Just to add to this discussion.. I've been reading and noticed that quite a few of the posts say that cadets typically do 2 subjects per semester etc, studying bachelor of commerce/business and all that. Thought I'd add a bit of diversity to the discussion to share my experiences! I'm currently undertaking a cadetship as well (I'm finishing my first year of university now) and working full-time. However, unlike 99% of other cadets in accounting firms, I am doing a commerce/law degree while working in the accounting firm, and I am also studying at university full-time too! 3 subjects per semester. I received a scholarship simultaneously to study and full-time uni was a requirement of this scholarship, so I haven't really had a choice on this front, but sadly I have to maintain a distinction average too which is quite an ask given that I am also working full-time and as of the first semester in 2012 I will be beginning my law subjects (I decided to dedicate my first year to commerce only so that I can at least ease into my job, because I know how tough law is going to be while trying to work at the same time)! Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth...

wow. amazing work mate. hard work in the start works wonders in the end. terrific work bud.

 

[lyounamu]

While full-time work + full time is extremely hectic, only very few people can pull it off (e.g. determine). I probably would not recommend this to normal people. Why? In commerce, unless you have a job placement somewhere, marks become increasingly important to score you internship/graduate position. While it may be important to get some relevant (or ANY work experience), I dont think it is desirable that people pursue full-time study AND work as that kind of schedule can potentially ruin your marks. People who have cadetship and graduate position lined up (and who don't mind working in those firms later on) are relatively stress-free in regards to that. On the other hand, normal people who would like to pursue internship and all in future should consider the impact of full-time work on their full-time studies.

That's not to say that all cadets should go for full-time study and work. I guess it's all about individual choice and they should be thinking about balancing study + work if they want to see themselves in a different company after cadetship placement

 

[determine]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

Wow that is an impressive effort on your part and definitely not the norm. That being said, at least in my time, a lot of us did overload and do 3 subjects a semester just to give us a bit of buffer in the final year or so that they could finish one semester earlier and travel the world.

Thank you! Yeah, I think the costs of being in uni an additional semester for a couple of subjects are outweighed by the benefits of finishing your degree that little bit earlier, and considering the accounting firms (at least the ones I know) are not too fussed about your marks, as long as you can pass, that should be okay! However, in my circumstances, it's definitely not something I would have wanted to do so early on (and I'll basically be doing this throughout my degree now), but UTS' scholarship terms and conditions specifically say that I must be enrolled full-time. Hopefully everything works out!

 

[determine]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

I have to say, this is really impressive. I'm sure you'll be fine when you begin studying your law subjects.

Thanks mate! hahaha, I'm trying to convince myself of that, but next semester I'm doing 2 law subjects and then tax law which is an accounting major subject but also from the law faculty.... LOL .

 

[determine]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

I'm just curious about the logistics of full timing university with full time work. I'm also studying a law degree, and I was planning to part time law after I get a graduate job. (After I graduate commerce)

Also, what is the social life like, full timing university with full time work?

Is it possible to full time university with full time law. At UNSW Law, each course is 4h a week, so full time law would consist of 16h, spread over 5 days. (~3h a day after work) This would mean that you'd have to be at university from 6-9 everyday after working a 9-5 shift at work. (I don't know whether it is similar with UTS Law)

In terms of the way that the timing works out, it is quite hectic to be able to make up all the time so that I can still be doing the core work hours, and we only get 3.5 hours off for study leave per week, which makes it even harder to be able to make up the time! I get into the office at 8 every morning and have been working through a few of my lunchtimes so that I can make up the time, so it is a lot of effort and can be exhausting at times. If you were to part-time it, it would probably be easier for you to fit it in around work, as doing 1-2 subjects can be more easily fit around work commitments I think, as you can go to uni say from 5-9pm (for law subjects) on 2 days a week, and that time that you need to make up at work is then only a few small amount (if anything at all, as I'm sure you'd be entitled to university leave).

The social life.. well, I must admit, it is quite non-existent in terms of the fact that as I'm working 5 days a week, I don't really have much time to be doing uni work on weekdays when I get home (considering this semester I've had uni 3 days a week), and then on the weekends, I largely have to allocate time to my studies/university work. That being said, I have had a few days on a few weekends where I've initiated/others have initiated things, e.g. birthdays, which I have thought 'I'll get up a few hours earlier in the morning, put in time and then I can go out at night' so I do reward myself/have a bit of downtime and time to myself! I think that is really important, as it is easy to burn-out with such a hectic full-time uni/full-time work load!

In terms of whether it's possible to full-time university with full-time law... well next semester, I am doing 14 hours of university! That is largely because one law subject I am doing is 7 hours per week, the other is 4 hours per week, and then the one accounting major subject (also from the law faculty) is 3 hours per week. I have arranged my timetable and thought about the way that I can attempt to make up the time, and it will involve a lot of backwards and forwards things on my part, i.e. going to work, leaving for uni, coming back to work and then going back to uni. It will be exhausting though, I am mentally preparing myself for it, but I'm willing to give it a go and see how it all pans out! And also don't forget that full-time university is typically 18 credit points or more (which in many cases is 3 subjects or 4 subjects), and some law subjects (at least at UTS) are worth more credit points than commerce subjects.

Hope this gives you a bit of insight!

 

[determine]

Re: how long does commerce degree (cadetship) take? I have no idea sorry..

wow. amazing work mate. hard work in the start works wonders in the end. terrific work bud.

thanks man! I sure hope so! although my final exams are rapidly approaching (they start on the 14th!) and I feel so underprepared! it's annoying because I was always used to having everything ready 6 weeks before an exam LOL. i guess that's the whole thing about trying to balance it all out, and any time I AM studying, better be quality time or I'll be utterly screwed hahaha!

 

[determine]

While full-time work + full time is extremely hectic, only very few people can pull it off (e.g. determine). I probably would not recommend this to normal people. Why? In commerce, unless you have a job placement somewhere, marks become increasingly important to score you internship/graduate position. While it may be important to get some relevant (or ANY work experience), I dont think it is desirable that people pursue full-time study AND work as that kind of schedule can potentially ruin your marks. People who have cadetship and graduate position lined up (and who don't mind working in those firms later on) are relatively stress-free in regards to that. On the other hand, normal people who would like to pursue internship and all in future should consider the impact of full-time work on their full-time studies.

That's not to say that all cadets should go for full-time study and work. I guess it's all about individual choice and they should be thinking about balancing study + work if they want to see themselves in a different company after cadetship placement

Yes, I totally agree with you lyounamu! Good call. If I haven't made it clear in my above posts, it is EXTREMELY hectic. And unless you are highly organised, committed, and good at managing your time, you will fail miserably! And yes, that's true about the whole work experience thing etc and the potential impact on your marks. However, I think that typically, university students who are full-timers have a casual/part-time job on the side that they use to earn some money for themselves, so hopefully it won't be a problem for them!

And yes, again, I agree about the balance part - a lot of it is a balancing game. In fact, I think basically all of it is about balancing. Because you really can't give one more attention than the other. At least that's how I see it. If you take your foot off the pedal at work, you'll get fired (assuming you take the foot off the pedal so much that it shows in your productivity/your output etc). If you take your foot off the pedal at uni, your marks will suffer. And in my case, if I take my foot off the university pedal, I most certainly won't get my D average and I'll lose my scholarship. Which would be a massive blow!

 

[seremify007]

That's not to say that all cadets should go for full-time study and work. I guess it's all about individual choice and they should be thinking about balancing study + work if they want to see themselves in a different company after cadetship placement

Agreed it's not for everyone. One key thing which helped me when I undertook FT work and FT studies simultaneously was the fact that I had worked for 2 years already in my firm and had established a good reputation. This gave me a lot more flexibility in how and when I work- e.g. I worked around my uni timetable, worked at night/on weekends, sometimes went to the office in morning, caught a cab to uni, and then caught a cab back to work after uni, etc.

I don't regret it one bit. Met my girlfriend who studies law at UNSW and hence we always had work to do together, and I earned more than enough to cover my lifestyle costs (i.e. cars).

 

[jaychouf4n]

Agreed it's not for everyone. One key thing which helped me when I undertook FT work and FT studies simultaneously was the fact that I had worked for 2 years already in my firm and had established a good reputation. This gave me a lot more flexibility in how and when I work- e.g. I worked around my uni timetable, worked at night/on weekends, sometimes went to the office in morning, caught a cab to uni, and then caught a cab back to work after uni, etc.

I don't regret it one bit. Met my girlfriend who studies law at UNSW and hence we always had work to do together, and I earned more than enough to cover my lifestyle costs (i.e. cars).

Mate, I think I've seen you at a campus event... I also think I met your girlfriend at a friend's bday party! (If her name begins with a J...)

On topic though, I'm very sure I want to work at the firm when I graduate, the only question is whether I'm willing to let go of the opportunity to work in law. That's what is getting me the most. I'm not sure I am ready to let go of my legal ambitions to pursue a career as an actuary.