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Section I - Multiple Choice (3 Viewers)

acemusic415

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the trick here

was the "criminal TRIAL process"

the trial starts off with jury empanelment

the committal proceeding initiates the trial process (but is not the first step WITHIN it)

its ridiculous imo

+ regardless of ur reasoning, i pulled that from the textbook
Im confused - doesn't the trial process begin with a committal hearing to establish a reasonable case against the accused. If the crown fails to establish a prima facie case, then there's no point in gathering a jury?

Isn't the initiation of the process therefore the first step?

Sheer confusion lol.
 

premiumcbc

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no

if dale robbed the bank THEN drove away he would be charged with both

alex DID NOT rob the bank and hence would not be charged under property

i did white collar (fuck me)

but yeah its defo driving
CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 345

Principals in the second degree-how tried and punished
345 Principals in the second degree-how tried and punished

"Every principal in the second degree in any serious indictable offence shall be liable to the same punishment to which the person would have been liable had the person been the principal in the first degree."

Therefore, just because Alex didn't assist in the actual robbery does not mean he will not be charged for robbery. Plus if you bothered to read any of the previous comments before going off a tangent. Its not about what he'll be charged with so quit saying 'charged' its what crimes that "committed".
 

themanman

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CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 345

Principals in the second degree-how tried and punished
345 Principals in the second degree-how tried and punished

"Every principal in the second degree in any serious indictable offence shall be liable to the same punishment to which the person would have been liable had the person been the principal in the first degree."

Therefore, just because Alex didn't assist in the actual robbery does not mean he will not be charged for robbery. Plus if you bothered to read any of the previous comments before going off a tangent. Its not about what he'll be charged with so quit saying 'charged' its what crimes that "committed".
upset cos he's wrong

love nerds on a tangent
 

Simone23

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Yeah, it's the age of the victim, i can see what people are saying by the offender, but if you think about it, if a 20 year old rapes a 20 year old or a 30 year old rapes a 20 year old they will both receieve the same penalty, but if the 20 year old rapes a 10 year old thats an aggravating factor due to the age of the victim.
 

Mjontrix

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Im confused - doesn't the trial process begin with a committal hearing to establish a reasonable case against the accused. If the crown fails to establish a prima facie case, then there's no point in gathering a jury?

Isn't the initiation of the process therefore the first step?

Sheer confusion lol.
the committal hearing is mostly taken within the local court which doesn't even comprise of a jury?
 

wogboy23

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Well lets say we've established the answers; the robbery as a property offence, conspiracy to rob AND robbery as well as the COMMITTAL HEARING being the first step in the criminal trial process
My final query regarding the multiple choice is question 15 -Australian Government has ratified an international treaty. What is the "practical effect" of this???
The two people are tossing up between is
b) This makes human rights punishable in Australia
c) The Australian Government can enact human rights legislation

I put down B. The word "ratified" suggests that the Commonwealth already passed a domestic law which echoes the terms of the treaty thus enacting it within Australia. Wouldn't that mean the "practical effect" would be the human rights now punishable in Australia as it is the EFFECT of the ratification?
Your thoughts peeepz?
 

wogboy23

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Well lets say we've established the answers; the robbery as a property offence, conspiracy to rob AND robbery as well as the COMMITTAL HEARING being the first step in the criminal trial process
My final query regarding the multiple choice is question 15 -Australian Government has ratified an international treaty. What is the "practical effect" of this???
The two people are tossing up between is
b) This makes human rights punishable in Australia
c) The Australian Government can enact human rights legislation

I put down B. The word "ratified" suggests that the Commonwealth already passed a domestic law which echoes the terms of the treaty thus enacting it within Australia. Wouldn't that mean the "practical effect" would be the human rights now punishable in Australia as it is the EFFECT of the ratification?
Your thoughts peeepz?
 

rayy_bann

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Hey can someone post some answers that they're sure of like 100% cause I'm confused of what we're actually discussing now, or at least post the answers that reflect the general consensus. Thanks guys!
 

wogboy23

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Hey can someone post some answers that they're sure of like 100% cause I'm confused of what we're actually discussing now, or at least post the answers that reflect the general consensus. Thanks guys!
k these are the definite answers now
1)d
2)b
3)a
4)c
5)a
6)b
7)b
8)c (lol I put d, didn't take into account their ages)
9)a
10)c
11)c
12)a
13)d
14)b (lol I put d, silly mistake)
15) b or c (still in discussion over, read my post above yours and let us know what you think - I think b
16)d
17)a
18)c
19)a
20)b
 

wogboy23

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I agree with the abovementioned answers.
Yay - does that also mean for q15 you believe it is B?
18/20 I guess is alright for multiple choice lol. Everyone agree this paper was more difficult than the specimen?
I got 97 in my legal trial....doubt I'll reproduce the same mark in this exam :(
 

isenseven

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Well lets say we've established the answers; the robbery as a property offence, conspiracy to rob AND robbery as well as the COMMITTAL HEARING being the first step in the criminal trial process
My final query regarding the multiple choice is question 15 -Australian Government has ratified an international treaty. What is the "practical effect" of this???
The two people are tossing up between is
b) This makes human rights punishable in Australia
c) The Australian Government can enact human rights legislation

I put down B. The word "ratified" suggests that the Commonwealth already passed a domestic law which echoes the terms of the treaty thus enacting it within Australia. Wouldn't that mean the "practical effect" would be the human rights now punishable in Australia as it is the EFFECT of the ratification?
Your thoughts peeepz?
I put down B aswell, but my teacher marked last year and said ratification in Australia is simply the process of signing a treaty without the enactment of legislation. But then she said c) was ambiguous because the Government can enact human rights legislation regardless of signing a treaty or not due to state sovereignty. Really there is no true answer then.
 

wogboy23

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I put down B aswell, but my teacher marked last year and said ratification in Australia is simply the process of signing a treaty without the enactment of legislation. But then she said c) was ambiguous because the Government can enact human rights legislation regardless of signing a treaty or not due to state sovereignty. Really there is no true answer then.
Oh, I thought ratification did mean enactment because my notes say it means that Parliament passes a domestic law giving effect to the treaty - therefore making the HR punishable in Australia...hmm BOS have definitely made the multiple choice harder than what we thought based on the specimen paper :p
 

isenseven

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Oh, I thought ratification did mean enactment because my notes say it means that Parliament passes a domestic law giving effect to the treaty - therefore making the HR punishable in Australia...hmm BOS have definitely made the multiple choice harder than what we thought based on the specimen paper :p
Hmm i thought so to but she said it's not, but really, how can C be correct? She said if the distribution of people is close between the two they might do both answers

What did you think of the one about which crime was chargeable was it b) conspiracy and robbery or d) robbery
 

wogboy23

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Hmm i thought so to but she said it's not, but really, how can C be correct? She said if the distribution of people is close between the two they might do both answers

What did you think of the one about which crime was chargeable was it b) conspiracy and robbery or d) robbery
I agree with the possibility of both answers for q 15 being correct, but probably B being the more correct answer because it was asking for the "practical effect" of ratification. B actually gives a holistic effect, unlike C which I consider to already have been performed as part of 'ratification.'
In terms of your property offence query, we've established that it is both conspiracy and robbery
 

acemusic415

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Oh, I thought ratification did mean enactment because my notes say it means that Parliament passes a domestic law giving effect to the treaty - therefore making the HR punishable in Australia...hmm BOS have definitely made the multiple choice harder than what we thought based on the specimen paper :p
That is true. Good point - however wouldn't that render D correct, even though there is the limitation of state sovereignty.
 

wogboy23

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That is true. Good point - however wouldn't that render D correct, even though there is the limitation of state sovereignty.
I think B is the most correct answer. D is very ambiguous. Remember D says "international tribunals". ICC you do not necessarily have to have ratification of its treaties to be punished if you have committed crimes (like Thomas Lubanga or even the difficulty trying to capture Oman al-Bashir) The other main international tribunal is the ICJ and ratification of international treaties means nothing here - you have to be a signatory state to have your case heard here.
 

premiumcbc

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End of the day, its not up for us to decide the correct answers haha. Whatever BOS says goes.
 

wogboy23

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Yep, move on time it's all over yeww FUCK BOS
Soooooo true
Would be nice to get universal thoughts and clarification on q 15 regarding ratification though.
It would put this multiple choice controversy to an end :p
 

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