Scaling (1 Viewer)

[Ezma]

Is there still such thing as subject scaling and does the subject you take affect the ATAR you ultimately get? I have had the board visit my school and we were told that subject scaling does not exist anymore (or that is how i had interpreted it :L), however i'm still confused as how this works? Can someone please clarify how the current system works please?
thnku

 

[Shadowdude]

What, of course there's subject scaling. And because of that - it affects the ATAR you get.

If there wasn't scaling, someone who got 96 in General Maths would be ranked higher than someone who got 95 in Maths Extension 2.

 

[LoveHateSchool]

Yes. Scaling, like many things exist.

Essentially every subject has different scaling when calculating your ATAR. Hence someone who got 80 in Std English, CAFS, General maths, drama, Aboriginal studies and hospitality would have a lmuch ower ATAR than someone who got 80 in Adv Eng, Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry and Economics.

 

[Ezma]

:L i've been told that it's the marks you get which contributes to ur ATAR only...the subject doesn't have anything to do with it anymore :/

 

[enoilgam]

:L i've been told that it's the marks you get which contributes to ur ATAR only...the subject doesn't have anything to do with it anymore :/

This couldnt be more incorrect. Scaling is still undertaken by the UAC. If you think about it, if scaling didnt exist, why would people bother doing MX1 and MX2 when they can do general maths which is way easier. Teachers and many professionals often have no clue how the HSC and ATAR works - when I was doing my HSC I learned how it worked mostly from this site because my teachers were utterly clueless (like trying to convince us that SOR I scaled as well as extension maths).

 

[Ezma]

This couldnt be more incorrect. Scaling is still undertaken by the UAC. If you think about it, if scaling didnt exist, why would people bother doing MX1 and MX2 when they can do general maths which is way easier. Teachers and many professionals often have no clue how the HSC and ATAR works - when I was doing my HSC I learned how it worked mostly from this site because my teachers were utterly clueless (like trying to convince us that SOR I scaled as well as extension maths).

tht sounds heaps more logical...thx much 4 clarifying it 4 me

 

[such_such]

Scaling is slightly different every year, depending on who does what subjects so there isn't really a formula for how the system works.

 

[AussieVesti]

Just make sure that you don't make decisions based on the perception of how a particular subject scale. The mantra that you should do the subjects you believe you will enjoy reigns supreme. Doing well in lower scale subjects is much better for your marks and ATAR in comparison to doing poorly in higher scale subjects.

 

[passionxmusic]

^ Agreed. All you can do is estimate from previous statistics and all subjects have different scaling depending on its difficulty.

 

[Ezma]

Just make sure that you don't make decisions based on the perception of how a particular subject scale. The mantra that you should do the subjects you believe you will enjoy reigns supreme. Doing well in lower scale subjects is much better for your marks and ATAR in comparison to doing poorly in higher scale subjects.

yup thnkuu I'd definitely take that into consideration i was just really confused at what some teachers were telling me about some supposed 'new system'...:/

 

[AussieVesti]

yup thnkuu I'd definitely take that into consideration i was just really confused at what some teachers were telling me about some supposed 'new system'...:/

Generally teachers spout out shit like that because they feel students will obsess about it too much and make uninformed decisions in the lead up to the HSC. More often than not, they come clean during the HSC.

 

[enoilgam]

Just make sure that you don't make decisions based on the perception of how a particular subject scale. The mantra that you should do the subjects you believe you will enjoy reigns supreme. Doing well in lower scale subjects is much better for your marks and ATAR in comparison to doing poorly in higher scale subjects.

This is also very true. Scaling exists but you should not pick subjects based on it. You should do what you enjoy and what you are good at.

 

[Peeik]

Um, correct me if i'm wrong, but the scaling process is similar to the ones at uni (the idea of scaling came from uni). So if a student got (a final HSC mark of) 95 in general maths and a student got 95 in extension 2 maths, then both subjects will have the same effect on your ATAR. HOWEVER, due to 4U maths being much harder than general maths the 'bell curve' for the 4U raw hsc exam will be closer to the 60-70% percent mark. The BOS/UAC then scales this unit up so the bell curve is around 80-90 (depending on how everyone in that year performed). For the general math situation, the bell curve for the raw hsc exam is much higher around 70-80. Since more students perform well in this unit, the UAC will have to scale the subject down to match the bell curve as in 4U maths. Thus in some sense, getting a 90+ mark in general maths is hard because people generally do well as a whole (i.e. your final HSC mark may be scaled down or is lower than what you scored in the raw hsc exam). This is why students who do 4U may score 80/120 but still get a final HSC mark of 90+. This is where the scaling occurs. Now how does this affect your ATAR?? By doing a subject like 4U maths enables you a higher chance get scaled up; that is, getting a higher final HSC mark than what you scored in the actual exam. This then affects your ATAR. THE SUBJECTS ALONE DO NOT SCALE YOUR ATAR. Only your final HSC marks affect your ATAR.

IN conclusion, a mark of 90 general math = a mark of 90 in 4U maths in terms of ATAR but since general is easier, your final HSC mark may be scaled down. that is, you'll get a lower hsc mark and hence it reduces the effect on your ATAR.

I have a strong feeling that this is the case but i could be wrong....please tell me if i'm wrong :O:O!....or right ??

 

[ReneeApple]

Um, correct me if i'm wrong, but the scaling process is similar to the ones at uni (the idea of scaling came from uni). So if a student got (a final HSC mark of) 95 in general maths and a student got 95 in extension 2 maths, then both subjects will have the same effect on your ATAR. HOWEVER, due to 4U maths being much harder than general maths the 'bell curve' for the 4U raw hsc exam will be closer to the 60-70% percent mark. The BOS/UAC then scales this unit up so the bell curve is around 80-90 (depending on how everyone in that year performed). For the general math situation, the bell curve for the raw hsc exam is much higher around 70-80. Since more students perform well in this unit, the UAC will have to scale the subject down to match the bell curve as in 4U maths. Thus in some sense, getting a 90+ mark in general maths is hard because people generally do well as a whole (i.e. your final HSC mark may be scaled down or is lower than what you scored in the raw hsc exam). This is why students who do 4U may score 80/120 but still get a final HSC mark of 90+. This is where the scaling occurs. Now how does this affect your ATAR?? By doing a subject like 4U maths enables you a higher chance get scaled up; that is, getting a higher final HSC mark than what you scored in the actual exam. This then affects your ATAR. THE SUBJECTS ALONE DO NOT SCALE YOUR ATAR. Only your final HSC marks affect your ATAR.

IN conclusion, a mark of 90 general math = a mark of 90 in 4U maths in terms of ATAR but since general is easier, your final HSC mark may be scaled down. that is, you'll get a lower hsc mark and hence it reduces the effect on your ATAR.

I have a strong feeling that this is the case but i could be wrong....please tell me if i'm wrong :O:O!....or right ??

You were right for a while but then you mixed up the aligning of the HSC marks and the scaling by UAC to get the ATAR. Your aligned mark will not be influenced by other subjects like that. Aligning is individual to every subject because they need to set people into the bands that they achieved. So therefore, a raw mark of 83 in biology might align to an HSC mark of 90. Similarly, 85 may scale to 90 in a language subject. These are completely unrelated as every subject needs the band achievements to be distinguished.

Scaling will only effect your ATAR results. How well a cohort went in a particular subject is compared to English (the only compulsory subject) and other subjects. For example, people doing extension 2 maths are generally smarter than those doing general, so they will be more likely to perform well in English. Therefore, MX2 will scale better than general maths.

They also compare subjects against each other this way. Say for example they compare everyone who did both legal studies and MX2. If the marks tend to be higher in legal studies than MX2 amongst these students, it is assumed that this is because legal is easier and will therefore not scale as well as MX2 does.

OP, as for choosing subjects based on their scaling, don't. Not only does the scaling of a subject change every year, but if you do well in a lower scaling subject, your results would be scaled better than doing poorly in a high scaling subject. So it's always better for your ATAR to do the absolute best in the subjects you enjoy and ignore how they scale than it is to do high scaling subjects because they scale well.

 

[enoilgam]

Um, correct me if i'm wrong, but the scaling process is similar to the ones at uni (the idea of scaling came from uni). So if a student got (a final HSC mark of) 95 in general maths and a student got 95 in extension 2 maths, then both subjects will have the same effect on your ATAR. HOWEVER, due to 4U maths being much harder than general maths the 'bell curve' for the 4U raw hsc exam will be closer to the 60-70% percent mark. The BOS/UAC then scales this unit up so the bell curve is around 80-90 (depending on how everyone in that year performed). For the general math situation, the bell curve for the raw hsc exam is much higher around 70-80. Since more students perform well in this unit, the UAC will have to scale the subject down to match the bell curve as in 4U maths. Thus in some sense, getting a 90+ mark in general maths is hard because people generally do well as a whole (i.e. your final HSC mark may be scaled down or is lower than what you scored in the raw hsc exam). This is why students who do 4U may score 80/120 but still get a final HSC mark of 90+. This is where the scaling occurs. Now how does this affect your ATAR?? By doing a subject like 4U maths enables you a higher chance get scaled up; that is, getting a higher final HSC mark than what you scored in the actual exam. This then affects your ATAR. THE SUBJECTS ALONE DO NOT SCALE YOUR ATAR. Only your final HSC marks affect your ATAR.

IN conclusion, a mark of 90 general math = a mark of 90 in 4U maths in terms of ATAR but since general is easier, your final HSC mark may be scaled down. that is, you'll get a lower hsc mark and hence it reduces the effect on your ATAR.

I have a strong feeling that this is the case but i could be wrong....please tell me if i'm wrong :O:O!....or right ??

I think you're confusing aligning with scaling.