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Labor Leadership Spill 2012 (2 Viewers)

Lentern

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Abbott (pbuh)
Today's result probably ensures he will contest the next election. Gillard should be safe till about November, by which time it'll be too late for Liberals to switch leaders if the new Labor leder takes the lead.
 

soloooooo

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I think Rudd is gone now. He'll never be foreign minister again nor leader of the party in government. The best he could hope for is that he becomes Opposition leader when Gillard loses the election, although that is a poisoned chalice in its own right. My tip would be Rudd doesn't contest the next election.

Abbott will be the next PM.
 

Lentern

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I think Rudd is gone now. He'll never be foreign minister again nor leader of the party in government. The best he could hope for is that he becomes Opposition leader when Gillard loses the election, although that is a poisoned chalice in its own right. My tip would be Rudd doesn't contest the next election.

Abbott will be the next PM.
You cannot possibly think Gillard will contest the next election?
 

soloooooo

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I think Gillard will. She'll lose, but I think she will be Labor leader still then. Labor is not going to go through another leadership crisis again before the next election, even for Gillard to resign and declare it open would be messy. Labor will go into opposition in 2013 and rebuild to try to win back from Abbott in 2016.
 

Lentern

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I think Gillard will. She'll lose, but I think she will be Labor leader still then. Labor is not going to go through another leadership crisis again before the next election, even for Gillard to resign and declare it open would be messy. Labor will go into opposition in 2013 and rebuild to try to win back from Abbott in 2016.
You're delusional. A third of caucus won't even vote for against a man who basically set out this week to denigrate them to his own game. There are MP's starring down oblivion in terms of their own re-election, you've got people who take genuine issue with her leadership like Doug Cameron, there is the threat of blind ambition as senior portfolios will invariably open up if Gillard and Swan are forced to the backbench and the temptation for Crean, Smith and maybe Combet to have one last tilt at being PM before they retire. She is a lame duck PM, safe only so long as nobody palatable to the factions decides to put their hand up
 

soloooooo

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Of the 20 most marginal Labor seats in the country, only 5 of those MPs threw their support behind Rudd. The other 15 chose 'death over honour' and refused to back Rudd.
 

Garygaz

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sort of surprising that no one is looking to challenge abbott. i mean he's LOSING ground during a time like this, if that isn't a surefire signal that he is on a tight-rope made purely of the disdain towards labor party i don't know what is. as a liberal strategist you've got to concede that, yes, gillard most likely won't be the leader by the next election, and that the negative stigma is going to be with abbott for a good while. i wouldn't be entirely shocked if someone made a play at the opposition leadership (turnbull?)
 

Lentern

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Of the 20 most marginal Labor seats in the country, only 5 of those MPs threw their support behind Rudd. The other 15 chose 'death over honour' and refused to back Rudd.
18 months out from an election of course they did, there is time to turn things around under Gillard. 10 months out from an election though if polling is diabolical they will ram that sword and ram it hard. Part of the reason Rudd only had an estimated 20 seats in a significantly larger caucus than the one that met today back in June 2010 is that the election was months away. They couldn't afford protracted leadership struggle so many candidates who didn't really support the change voted effectively in favour of a decisive result.
 

Lentern

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sort of surprising that no one is looking to challenge abbott. i mean he's LOSING ground during a time like this, if that isn't a surefire signal that he is on a tight-rope made purely of the disdain towards labor party i don't know what is. as a liberal strategist you've got to concede that, yes, gillard most likely won't be the leader by the next election, and that the negative stigma is going to be with abbott for a good while. i wouldn't be entirely shocked if someone made a play at the opposition leadership (turnbull?)
sort of surprising that no one is looking to challenge abbott. i mean he's LOSING ground during a time like this, if that isn't a surefire signal that he is on a tight-rope made purely of the disdain towards labor party i don't know what is. as a liberal strategist you've got to concede that, yes, gillard most likely won't be the leader by the next election, and that the negative stigma is going to be with abbott for a good while. i wouldn't be entirely shocked if someone made a play at the opposition leadership (turnbull?)

A few people I know in the liberals have all told me that Abbott is in an unusual position of safety because of a lack of other leadership talent from the dry faction of the coalition. (although less formal the liberals are essentially divided into two factions) After 2007 the wets and dry's were almost evenly balanced and that's why we saw such close ballots first I think Nelson beat Turnbull by 2 votes, then Turnbull beat Nelson by five votes then Abbott beat Turnbull by one vote. In 2007 there was John Howard, Alexander Downer, Brendan Nelson and Tony Abbott occupying senior ministries from the dry's, while from the wets there was Costello, Bishop and Turnbull basically. Post 2007 as Howard, Downer, Costello and Nelson have all departed their senior positions have been assumed almost entirely by wets, Hockey, Morrison, Pyne(although Pyne often votes with the dry's) and Hunt are all from the moderate wing.


Most of the new dry's are callow, newish MP's without much stature or gravitas, the exception being Andrew Robb who is not well regarded as a viable leadership contender. So Abbott is virtually unrivaled as leader of the dry's. As you might have expected from Abbott's campaign at the last election, most of the seats the coalition picked up had more socially conservative, economic rationalist, strayan values sort of dry Liberals as the candidate and as such the dry's now have a ten seat buffer thereabouts over the wets in caucus. Believe you me there is a fair chunk of the Liberals who can hardly stand Abbott and are trying to massage some of the more pliable dry's but with Abbott so comfortably ahead in the polls and Turnbull being so unabashedly progressive and urbane, the dry's have no interest in budging. I believe if Turnbull can be persuaded to stand aside (and I don't think he can) you may see Hockey or Morrison mount a challenge against Abbott at some point, they are both personally liked by the dry's in contrast to Turnbull.
 

Azure

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I could never bring myself to vote for the Liberals with Hockey as leader. Turnbull would be my ideal choice. I am struggling with Abbott, but unfortunately I find him to be better than the alternative (which I guess says a bit about the current state of politics in this country).
 

soloooooo

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I dislike Abbott also, although I'm not voting for Julia Gillard.
 

Lentern

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I could never bring myself to vote for the Liberals with Hockey as leader. Turnbull would be my ideal choice. I am struggling with Abbott, but unfortunately I find him to be better than the alternative (which I guess says a bit about the current state of politics in this country).
Hockey is an interesting one. I genuinely believe he is probably the leadership candidate (in either party) with the most widespread public appeal.
 

Garygaz

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i think hockey is misrepresented by the media (as is everyone), i've met him once and he does come across as intelligent and genuine.
 

Lentern

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i think hockey is misrepresented by the media (as is everyone), i've met him once and he does come across as intelligent and genuine.
I didn't realize people genuinely thought him slow, I thought that was just white anting from Liberals and wishful propaganda from Labor.
 

Garygaz

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i think he took a hit after something to do with the numbers on his budget. there was some form of campaign to make him seem like the bumbling accountant.
 

Lentern

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i think he took a hit after something to do with the numbers on his budget. there was some form of campaign to make him seem like the bumbling accountant.
Oh yeah I know Joe has had gaffes and that he doesn't come across as sharply as Costello, Turnbull, Tanner etc but in a debate carried out by Abbott, Gillard, Swan, Wong and Robb I thought he more or less comes out first.
 

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