Internal marks/scaling (1 Viewer)

[Skeptyks]

So I think I just got destroyed by the last part of my maths extension 2 exam - conics - 15 marks / a possible 68 marks.
Overall, I estimated I would get 48/68 which is 70.5% or so (so around 65%~75% max). I am 99% sure this other guy is going to get 80% ~ 95% and I was just wondering, if I get 2nd/3rd place, as internal marks don't really matter (only ranks do, I think?) during the HSC overall totalling up thing at the end of the year, does this gap in % matter despite the closeness of my ranks?

Also, if I get like 85/120 or 70.8/100 in the HSC external for MX2, does that on average, scale to a low E4?

Thanks.

 

[Siddy123]

Don't be discouraged by this one exam, keep your head up, keep studying and try beat that other guy. I'm sure you have heard this a million times before, the rank is the only thing that matters. At the end of the year the school will send th ranks/marks to the bored of studies.The bored of studies does not consider your individual internal mark except for the purpose of determining gaps and patterns within the cohort.
For eg a extension 2 maths class....
We have Micheal, Steve, Jenny, John
Internal Marks are as follow:
Steve 85 ( Rank 1)
Jenny 78 ( Rank 2)
Micheal 70 ( Rank 3)
John 62 ( Rank 4)

These marks will be sent to the board of studies, then they will see that between steve and jenny is a 7 mark gap, between jeny and mike is a 8 mark gap, between micheal and john is an 8 mark gap.
Steve will be awarded a 98 ( for example), jenny a 91-92,mike an 85 and so on.....

This method is used as a selective school who sets hard exams might have rank 1 getting 88, but a local public school with piss easy exams might have the whole class in the 90s.
so everything i moderated accordingly, averaged with your hsc exam mark and given to you as an individual mark.
Moral of story: Study hard, dont be too worried bout internal marks as opposed to ranks.

Just a irl example.... a guy from 4u last year got 66 internal mark, and endded up getting a 91 final 4u mark, a guy who got 78 internal got a 98 final mark.

Good luck with your hsc!!

 

[Skeptyks]

Thanks heaps so your saying regardless if he got like 90% and I got an average of 75% or so, the gap wouldn't really matter as long as I'm second?

 

[someth1ng]

Well, in the polynomials section of my 4U exam, I got only 4/15. The sections were:
Multiple Choice: 5/5
Conics: 12/15
Curve Sketching: 14/15
Polynomials: 4/15
Inequalities: 8/15

I ended up with 66% and the highest was 90%.

 

[D94]

So I think I just got destroyed by the last part of my maths extension 2 exam - conics - 15 marks / a possible 68 marks.
Overall, I estimated I would get 48/68 which is 70.5% or so (so around 65%~75% max). I am 99% sure this other guy is going to get 80% ~ 95% and I was just wondering, if I get 2nd/3rd place, as internal marks don't really matter (only ranks do, I think?) during the HSC overall totalling up thing at the end of the year, does this gap in % matter despite the closeness of my ranks?

Also, if I get like 85/120 or 70.8/100 in the HSC external for MX2, does that on average, scale to a low E4?

Thanks.

If you think ranks only matter (obviously apart from 1st place) then you're in for a big shock. In fact, first place could be an outlier, so even coming second won't get you a mark close to first place, even if you're only 1 rank apart. So in short, yes, the difference in marks is very important at the end of the year. Your rank is just a symbolic number of your position in the class. It bears little knowledge as to your actual performance. Does 1st = 90, 2nd = 50, 3rd = 48, 4th = 45, 5th = 44 look great if you're second? Probably not, but you say you're only a rank or two away...

But anyway, if i take my school last year as an example, for MX2 I estimate 1st's raw mark was probably around 95, I was ranked 16th and my raw mark was around 68. Right, so there is a 27 raw mark difference. Because of the strength in the cohort, this was reduced to a gap of 6 marks, only 3 if you look at the actual exam mark.

So really, a good HSC performance can negate what appears to be a poor internal performance. Obviously getting as many raw marks is quite important; a good HSC performance is paramount.

 

[Skeptyks]

Thanks but I only understood the middle - last bit. I understand that 2nd is not so great if it is a mark/average of 50 or so but generally are you just trying to say that HSC external can negate anything despite ranks?
OR are you saying the strength of the cohort is similarly significant? Cause my cohort is not the best... I mean, I'm not too great and I am 2nd/3rd or so in MX2.

Well, in the polynomials section of my 4U exam, I got only 4/15. The sections were:
Multiple Choice: 5/5
Conics: 12/15
Curve Sketching: 14/15
Polynomials: 4/15
Inequalities: 8/15

I ended up with 66% and the highest was 90%.

Gives my hope, seeing how your aiming for 99+ too... So similar, I think I went:
Multiple choice: 6/8
Complex numbers: 14/15
Graphs: 13/15
Polynomials: 13/15
Conics: 2/15

 

[D94]

Thanks but I only understood the middle - last bit. I understand that 2nd is not so great if it is a mark/average of 50 or so but generally are you just trying to say that HSC external can negate anything despite ranks?
OR are you saying the strength of the cohort is similarly significant? Cause my cohort is not the best... I mean, I'm not too great and I am 2nd/3rd or so in MX2.

Alright, let's see. If everyone performs greatly in the HSC, it wouldn't matter if your raw mark was 50 and first was 99. If everyone's marks are between 90 and 100, then the lowest you can get is 90! Hence why doing great in the HSC is very important. However, this is very theoretical, and hypothetical. Because you are highly ranked, if you can perform as good as ranked 1 in the HSC, then I doubt you'd be dragged down. HSC can "appear" to negate poor raw marks, but really, that's the moderation of the marks, so your marks are in line with your cohort's HSC performance.

TL;DR / You're still confused
Raw marks are more important than ranks (a rank is just a number, it doesn't tell how you really went)
HSC performance is most important
Inherently, a strong cohort will be able to negate what appears to be crap raw marks

 

[someth1ng]

Multiple choice: 6/8
Complex numbers: 14/15
Graphs: 13/15
Polynomials: 13/15
Conics: 2/15

If you do get those marks, you should be fine. 70% in Extension 2 is a decent mark, in my opinion.

 

[Skeptyks]

Alright, let's see. If everyone performs greatly in the HSC, it wouldn't matter if your raw mark was 50 and first was 99. If everyone's marks are between 90 and 100, then the lowest you can get is 90! Hence why doing great in the HSC is very important. However, this is very theoretical, and hypothetical. Because you are highly ranked, if you can perform as good as ranked 1 in the HSC, then I doubt you'd be dragged down. HSC can "appear" to negate poor raw marks, but really, that's the moderation of the marks, so your marks are in line with your cohort's HSC performance.

TL;DR / You're still confused
Raw marks are more important than ranks (a rank is just a number, it doesn't tell how you really went)
HSC performance is most important
Inherently, a strong cohort will be able to negate what appears to be crap raw marks

The tl;dr bit made the most sense :] So your saying, do well in the HSC - good raw marks or if you get bad raw marks, hope that a strong cohort negates your low marks.

If you do get those marks, you should be fine. 70% in Extension 2 is a decent mark, in my opinion.

I was really hoping for 85%+ haha, that conics bit really killed me, I need more revision and time management - he sneaked in a HSC question 7/8 somewhere although I forgot which section and that took me ages

 

[someth1ng]

I was really hoping for 85%+ haha, that conics bit really killed me, I need more revision.

You're just over-reacting - I think.

 

[D94]

The tl;dr bit made the most sense :] So your saying, do well in the HSC - good raw marks or if you get bad raw marks, hope that a strong cohort negates your low marks.

Yeah, about right. Obviously you want to as well as possible at school, but in the end, a strong HSC performance by everyone (or at least up to your rank) should get you good marks.

 

[Skeptyks]

Yeah, about right. Obviously you want to as well as possible at school, but in the end, a strong HSC performance by everyone (or at least up to your rank) should get you good marks.

But by becoming 1st you can do without everyone else getting good marks right.

You're just over-reacting - I think.

Probably haha :]

 

[Siddy123]

Thanks heaps so your saying regardless if he got like 90% and I got an average of 75% or so, the gap wouldn't really matter as long as I'm second?

No, I'm saying that the gap matters.
so if he got 90 and u got 60, thats bad...
re read what i wrote

 

[stereoheart]

So if you come like 15th in say english but the difference between everyone who got from 1st to 15th place is alright? But if it was like a 5 mark gap then thats bad?

Also, say you get 87 internal assessment mark but then like 96 in your externals, that would be moderated to about 91 right?

But if thats right, then how does that make sense, because say you come third in economics then dont you take the third external mark as your internal mark? therefore the 87 is really the other person's work and not yours?


Say you always get over 90% in all your tasks but end up ranking 4th in something. Then you take the 4th external mark as your assesssment mark, right? But what if this 4th external mark was like 87...wouldnt that not make sense? Because its not matching your effort?

 

[D94]

But by becoming 1st you can do without everyone else getting good marks right.

If you come first, your moderated assessment mark is based on the highest exam mark. However, just because you are first, it doesn't mean you are all set for 95+ in each subject. You have to perform well too; if you bomb out in your exam, that's your exam mark, and will contribute to half your HSC mark.

So if you come like 15th in say english but the difference between everyone who got from 1st to 15th place is alright? But if it was like a 5 mark gap then thats bad?

Also, say you get 87 internal assessment mark but then like 96 in your externals, that would be moderated to about 91 right?

But if thats right, then how does that make sense, because say you come third in economics then dont you take the third external mark as your internal mark? therefore the 87 is really the other person's work and not yours?


Say you always get over 90% in all your tasks but end up ranking 4th in something. Then you take the 4th external mark as your assesssment mark, right? But what if this 4th external mark was like 87...wouldnt that not make sense? Because its not matching your effort?

No, you are mistaken. You get your own exam mark, that's definite. No one can impact your own exam mark, if you get 100, you get 100 for your exam mark, if you get 50, you get 50 for your exam mark.

However, your moderated assessment mark is determined by your raw marks and the cohort's overall exam performance. Now, what the BOS does is pin first and pin last, so ALL your moderated assessment marks range from the highest exam mark to the lowest exam mark, excluding any obvious outliers.

Then, the BOS calculates the mean/average of the raw marks and the mean of the exam marks, and aligns them. Then, by a process of standard deviation, BOS determines how much your raw marks deviate from the mean, and applies that same factor to the moderated assessment marks.

Essentially, the moderated assessment marks reflect the raw marks, however, they have been aligned according to the exam performance.

There aren't any trading of ranks and marks. You don't get someone else's mark and they don't get yours based on rank.

So then you ask why do people get lower assessment marks than exam marks? Well, in these many unfortunate cases, it shows people who are ranked above these unlucky people haven't performed as well as their rank shows.

 

[stereoheart]

ok so say i get a final moderated internal assessment mark of 86 (after being moderated/aligned etc) but then i get a 97 in my external exam ....the exam mark will be pulled down? or will my assessment mark go up?

 

[D94]

ok so say i get a final moderated internal assessment mark of 86 (after being moderated/aligned etc) but then i get a 97 in my external exam ....the exam mark will be pulled down? or will my assessment mark go up?

The exam mark is final, the assessment mark is final. Your final HSC mark is the average of 86 and 97, which would be 92.

 

[stereoheart]

ok thankyou! I know I have been pestering you around the forums but I really appreciate this!