Bachelor of Primary Education without doing Maths for the HSC? (1 Viewer)

[laurahsharp]

So Im currently doing the HSC this year, and is my dream next year to do teaching.
If I end up doing high school teaching, Im not worrying because Im not doing math teaching and wont need maths.
I do know however, some universities require you to do maths for the HSC in terms of primary teaching.

I know that there are pathways or bridging courses, but Im not particularly good at maths.
I thrive at all my HSIE and Social Science subjects, but maths has always been a challenge.
So does anybody know what the pathways or bridging courses are about, and if they are hard?
Also if I dont do very good at it, or good at Maths during the Uni course, can I still be a teacher?

Any help would be great.
Thank you

 

[enoilgam]

My aunty is doing a Primary Teaching degree at the moment and the maths involved is pretty rudimentary from what I have seen. I dont see why you would need 2 unit for a primary teaching degree anyway. Also, unless maths is a pre-requisite for the degree than you dont have to have done it in year 12.

 

[Shadowdude]

I don't think many unis require maths - they'll either recommend it or assume you know it.

 

[cem]

The unis mightn't but the Department of Education does - Band 4 in both English and Maths are pre-requisites to enter Primary Teaching. https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/about-us...ach-what-you-love/primary-and-early-childhood

If you are interested in a career in early childhood, working in NSW public schools, you must attain a Higher School Certificate (including a minimum band 4 in both mathematics and English) and complete an early childhood teacher education program through a recognised higher education institution.

 

[Drongoski]

One of the greatest tragedies of Australian Education. Requiring teachers weak in maths to teach maths.

Most primary school teachers have poor aptitude in maths. Imagine a Primary 6 teacher, otherwise excellent in English or History or Drama but wobbly in maths being also required to teach maths; isn't that lunacy and serously misguided.? Primary schools should have specialist maths teachers to teach maths - at least from Year 4.

 

[soloooooo]

Primary school mathematics is hardly rocket science though.

 

[Peeik]

One of the greatest tragedies of Australian Education. Requiring teachers weak in maths to teach maths.

Most primary school teachers have poor aptitude in maths. Imagine a Primary 6 teacher, otherwise excellent in English or History or Drama but wobbly in maths being also required to teach maths; isn't that lunacy and serously misguided.? Primary schools should have specialist maths teachers to teach maths - at least from Year 4.

I disagree with that statement. Primary schools should not have specialist maths teachers. Instead they should have primary school teachers who needs to train to be good at mathematics. If those primary school teachers aren't good at maths, there should be workshops or programs run by the university to ensure that they come out as adept teachers in primary school math. Having a teacher who was originally bad at maths (as a student) but is now adept at it is far more valuable because they can understand some of the misconceptions students may have just like how they would've have when they were a student. I dare say they are even more valuable than having a capable extension 2 mathematics teacher teaching year 4-6 students maths.

@ OP: Just like how Cem mentioned you need at least a band 4 in english and maths. I have a friend doing prim education at usyd and she only did general maths. You will be required to do maths at university as part of your degree for prim education. I am certain the highest level of math that you need to at uni is stage 5 (year 9-10) mathematics.

 

[Drongoski]

If those primary school teachers aren't good at maths, there should be workshops or programs run by the university to ensure that they come out as adept teachers in primary school math.

.

Are you suggesting that all teachers can be trained to be adept at maths teaching? Whilst there are exceptions, no amount of workshop and training is going to turn one with little aptitude for maths into one adept at it. A teacher wobbly at maths is going to cause incalculable damage to many students for years to come. Hard to turn sow's ear into silk purse.

 

[Peeik]

Are you suggesting that all teachers can be trained to be adept at maths teaching? Whilst there are exceptions, no amount of workshop and training is going to turn one with little aptitude in maths into one adept at it. A teacher wobbly at maths is going to cause incalculable damage to many students for years to come. Hard to turn sow's ear into silk purse.

Yeah I strongly believe anyone and everyone can be good at anything. The only reason why these teachers arent good at maths is because they never had a good math teacher in the first place. That's why it is important that they have these teachers at uni to explain mathematical concepts that which they may not have understood as a student.

Also when you said that "Whilst there are exceptions, no amount of workshop and training is going to turn one with little aptitude in maths into one adept at it." Doesnt that defeat the purpose of tutoring? Hence I believe everyone can be good at maths, they just need a good teacher to inject knowledge, motivation and passion for learning mathematics.

But in saying that this is a very debatable topic and I can see your viewpoint, its just I dont think your idea of having specialised primary math teachers would work well, particularly when there is a shortage of good math teachers.

 

[Drongoski]

In over 10 years of tutoring, it has been my lot to have many students weak in maths. Sometimes I have to go over simple concepts half a dozen times . Something as simple as the concept of a "term" as opposed to a "factor" which are fundamental to the manipulation of an equation. It is my view that some people just don't get it. Their mind is not for logical (deductive) reasoning - so essential for mathematics. That's my observation and conclusion. But of course I may be wrong; I wish I were.

 

[enoilgam]

I know this is going a bit off topic but I'm sort of in between Peeik and Drongoski. I think that for most people, if you work enough at maths you can become quite good at it (certainly enough to be competant for primary teaching). Although I definitely see where Drongoski is coming from - some people, no matter what you do just dont get certain aspects of maths. I also agree that the standard of maths amongst primary teachers needs as a whole needs to be raised. Like I said my aunty is doing a primary education and I also know a few others doing it, and the maths which they study is far too basic.

 

[Shadowdude]

I remember I had a teacher who basically confused me about subtraction. This was in primary school.

So... you know how you do manual subtraction, like 96 - 58, for example. You have to carry the 8 over or whatnot...


Basically my teacher taught me the wrong method and... well, yeah. Confused me.

 

[laurahsharp]

That is exactly my problem!
I excel highly in Drama, English, History and my other subjects relating to those but when it comes to that one damn subject that I actually need as a requirement, I can barely do any of it! Im pretty sure the Department of Education needs to realise being a perfectionist in every single subject is not realistic. Ugh.

 

[Kat92]

So Im currently doing the HSC this year, and is my dream next year to do teaching.
If I end up doing high school teaching, Im not worrying because Im not doing math teaching and wont need maths.
I do know however, some universities require you to do maths for the HSC in terms of primary teaching.

I know that there are pathways or bridging courses, but Im not particularly good at maths.
I thrive at all my HSIE and Social Science subjects, but maths has always been a challenge.
So does anybody know what the pathways or bridging courses are about, and if they are hard?
Also if I dont do very good at it, or good at Maths during the Uni course, can I still be a teacher?

Any help would be great.
Thank you

Why do secondary teachers only have to meet the English requirement?

This is the current policy of the NSW Institute of Teachers. However, there is a possibility that when national registration comes into effect after 2013, that BOTH Primary and Secondary teachers will have to meet the Mathematics and English requirements. This is yet to be confirmed, and will undoubtedly be the subject of intense debate in National forums.

Although ultimately, there are many ways in which you can fulfil the Mathematics requirement e.g. enabling programs, through TAFE or by taking maths as an elective. As Cem has already mentioned, it is geared for a Band 4 level with General Mathematics being the basis for testing (so you should be fine).


For entry into Uni, your maths level is not assessed. They only look at your ATAR and other credentials. However, upon graduation depending on what form of teaching-- you need to be able to demonstrate the Band 4 Maths and English requirements as per the NSW guidelines. Furthemore, it gets recorded with the program officer and then goes on your transcript and AHEGS.


I hope this has clarified some of your concerns!

 

[cem]

Why do secondary teachers only have to meet the English requirement?

The simple answer is that Primary teachers have to teach both English and Maths while secondary teachers have to teach their specialist subjects. Having started life as a Primary teacher and now teaching secondary history I do see why Maths is required at Primary level but not at secondary level unless teaching Maths/Science or Business/Economics. However they need to have university study in their teaching subjects.

Back in the 80s there were a number of students who were getting into primary teaching at uni with ATAR equivalents of less than 30 and many more getting in with no Maths and very low English which was linked to dropping standards so the Dept set the minimum standard of Band 4 in both Maths and English to ensure that their teachers had a basic knowledge of those two subjects - which are a large part of primary teacher.

 

[Kat92]

The simple answer is that Primary teachers have to teach both English and Maths while secondary teachers have to teach their specialist subjects. Having started life as a Primary teacher and now teaching secondary history I do see why Maths is required at Primary level but not at secondary level unless teaching Maths/Science or Business/Economics. However they need to have university study in their teaching subjects.

Back in the 80s there were a number of students who were getting into primary teaching at uni with ATAR equivalents of less than 30 and many more getting in with no Maths and very low English which was linked to dropping standards so the Dept set the minimum standard of Band 4 in both Maths and English to ensure that their teachers had a basic knowledge of those two subjects - which are a large part of primary teacher.

Cem, I just put that as a heading for laurasharp to help with clarifying the difference. I went on to explain what is being proposed in the future, off what was handed to me at an initial PECS/orientation day.

Thank you for your insight though, it certainly makes for interesting reading. I certainly agree, that English standards are not the same as what they used to be.

 

[Moldy81]

Hi, at UWS there are no compulsory subject requirements that are required to be able to apply for our primary teaching program. Rather, there are merely recommended subjects. For more information on what the recommended subjects are for this degree, have a look through the 2013 UAC Guide that will be given to you by your school in August. Best regards, UWS Course Info.