Violence erupts in Sydney over anti-Islam film (2 Viewers)

[Some Vunt]

Go educate yourself. Under previous Caliphate rule the Muslim lands were prosperous and forward thinking. They were FAR more learned than western civilisations in a variety of fields... scientific, business, architecture and other art forms.

As for their spread into Europe... Relative to whats involved in the spread of an Empire.. It was hardly the most horrific.

For the record - I am british. "My people" have a disgusting history. Our empire had many atrocities and was also during a time where humanity should have known better.

I am educated. Don't be a pious prick.
Fuck off. Then why are they still living in the sand?! (because that's where they belong)
Far more learned then western culture? Yet the still allow us to influence them? Still get angry when we do? And then random Muslim "visionaries" have people assassinated, or perform terror attacks to get their point across whilst spewing out the hypocrisy of their "peaceful" religion.

At least we know we're a bit terrible, but they always attempt to blame shit on everyone else.

"omg, we were so good before you guys came along" OKAY.

"History" EXACTLY. IT'S IN THE PAST.

 

[Some Vunt]

Yes, which is why the Middle East has maintained itself as the centre of learning, culture and influence for the past millennium. Oh wait. Nevermind.

Thank you!

 

[7eleven]

In general, for those who think sharia is a failure, i think not. However still my heart doesn't go with what hizb-ut-tahrir fights for

 

[Peccadillo]

he just said "western influence"

Regardless of what he meant that is what he said.

And the United States is part of the West, but is not the entirety of the west.


That's like me saying that all Muslims are violent cunts, just because the protestors the other day, who were Muslims, were violent cunts.

You do realise America isnt the only country who has got their hands dirty in the region right?? Please tell me you know that much.. Or dont you understand why Lebanon has three national languages?

EDIT: Ill help you.. Arabic, English and French.

Please go read up, have a think, come back - then we can talk.

 

[JINOUGA]

In general, for those who think sharia is a failure, i think not. However still my heart doesn't go with what hizb-ut-tahrir fights for

Considering that the Qur'an dictates an "eye for an eye" justice or compensation/charity Sharia as its own independent law is entirely irrelevant as countries like the US, Australia etc. have laws pretty much in line with these views as well.

Contrary to popular belief, Sharia isn't a set rule of laws, it is entirely open to interpretation and as such is fundamentally flawed as a concrete justice system. For example, if one interprets the Qur'an literally and dismisses Hadith (which are often technically flawed) then the laws of Australia, US and most other countries are in essence exactly the same

 

[Peccadillo]

I am educated. Don't be a pious prick.
Fuck off. Then why are they still living in the sand?! (because that's where they belong)
Far more learned then western culture? Yet the still allow us to influence them? Still get angry when we do? And then random Muslim "visionaries" have people assassinated, or perform terror attacks to get their point across whilst spewing out the hypocrisy of their "peaceful" religion.

At least we know we're a bit terrible, but they always attempt to blame shit on everyone else.

"omg, we were so good before you guys came along" OKAY.

"History" EXACTLY. IT'S IN THE PAST.

I try to be as pious as I can - thanks for the compliment.. although it seems slightly misplaced?
I skimmed the rest of your post as your inability to communicate in your own language leads me to believe its not worth consideration.

 

[7eleven]

Considering that the Qur'an dictates an "eye for an eye" justice or compensation/charity Sharia as its own independent law is entirely irrelevant as countries like the US, Australia etc. have laws pretty much in line with these views as well.

Contrary to popular belief, Sharia isn't a set rule of laws, it is entirely open to interpretation and as such is fundamentally flawed as a concrete justice system. For example, if one interprets the Qur'an literally and dismisses Hadith (which are often technically flawed) then the laws of Australia, US and most other countries are in essence exactly the same

"US, Australia etc. have laws pretty much in line with these views as well." I disagree with you here. The judicial system that we have in Australia is extremely different from sharia, and i think many would agree to this.

 

[JINOUGA]

"US, Australia etc. have laws pretty much in line with these views as well." I disagree with you here. The judicial system that we have in Australia is extremely different from sharia, and i think many would agree to this.

How so?

 

[Some Vunt]

You do realise America isnt the only country who has got their hands dirty in the region right?? Please tell me you know that much.. Or dont you understand why Lebanon has three national languages?

EDIT: Ill help you.. Arabic, English and French.

Please go read up, have a think, come back - then we can talk.

I do know.

But he said united states

And also, we haven't gotten our hands that dirty

We're trying to help savages be less savage.

It's our responsibility as human beings.

I try to be as pious as I can - thanks for the compliment.. although it seems slightly misplaced?
I skimmed the rest of your post as your inability to communicate in your own language leads me to believe its not worth consideration.

pious - making a hypocritical display of virtue
Maybe you should take your own advice:

Please tell me you know that much… Please go read up, have a think, come back - then we can talk.

Maybe in future you should be less stupid before you are so condescending.

My ability to communicate in my own language is fine. If you can't read it then it's probably because you've been reading to Qur'an so much you are brainwashed into thinking all languages other than Arabic are inferior ”because you don't know the true meanings of the holy text."

 

[JINOUGA]

I do know.

But he said united states

And also, we haven't gotten our hands that dirty

We're trying to help savages be less savage.

It's our responsibility as human beings.

pious - making a hypocritical display of virtue
Maybe you should take your own advice: Maybe in future you should be less stupid before you are so condescending.

My ability to communicate in my own language is fine. If you can't read it then it's probably because you've been reading to Qur'an so much you are brainwashed into thinking all languages other than Arabic are inferior ”because you don't know the true meanings of the holy text."

no

i said "such as the united states". I never implied that the US represented the entirety of the Western world, I merely implied that it was a part of it

 

[Peccadillo]

I do know.

But he said united states

And also, we haven't gotten our hands that dirty

We're trying to help savages be less savage.

It's our responsibility as human beings.

pious - making a hypocritical display of virtue
Maybe you should take your own advice: Maybe in future you should be less stupid before you are so condescending.

My ability to communicate in my own language is fine. If you can't read it then it's probably because you've been reading to Qur'an so much you are brainwashed into thinking all languages other than Arabic are inferior ”because you don't know the true meanings of the holy text."

1. Your first point has been addressed by JINOUGA.

2. Can you please outline what my "hypocritical display of virtue" is exactly? Because that didn't make sense to me I assumed you were just saying Im a deeply religeous prick - to which I did not take offense.

3. Also my Arabic is terrible. But thanks for making your millionth unfounded statement for the day.

 

[7eleven]

How so?

Sharia is completely different. It has specific punishments for different offences, and proving someone guilty is also quite different. Eg- adultery according to sharia is a crime and if someone was to be found guilty they would be stoned to death. Now u cant possibly say this runs parallel with the Australian judicial system. Unfortunately i cant get to more finer details, but no way are these two laws in line with each other.

 

[JINOUGA]

Sharia is completely different. It has specific punishments for different offences, and proving someone guilty is also quite different. Eg- adultery according to sharia is a crime and if someone was to be found guilty they would be stoned to death. Now u cant possibly say this runs parallel with the Australian judicial system. Unfortunately i cant get to more finer details, but no way are these two laws in line with each other.

The Qur'an itself states

"And We ordained therein for them: Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal. But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. "

The bold in essence defines the notion that the punishment can be compensation paid by the perpetrator. As such, stoning is not necessarily the "only" punishment by Islamic justice.

Essentially what the quote from the Qur'an states is that punishment should be equal to the crime if not less. Again, I do not think stoning is equal to someone sleeping with an extra marital partner

 

[7eleven]

The Qur'an itself states

"And We ordained therein for them: Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth and wounds equal for equal. But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation. "

The bold in essence defines the notion that the punishment can be compensation paid by the perpetrator. As such, stoning is not necessarily the "only" punishment by Islamic justice.

Essentially what the quote from the Qur'an states is that punishment should be equal to the crime if not less. Again, I do not think stoning is equal to someone sleeping with an extra marital partner

You're still making no sense. The charity option is only possible in certain situations. If u were to kill someone today with intent, and found guilty, you would be killed according to sharia law, and no u cant give a compensation or another form of charity. That what Islam is."An eye for an eye" Its just. Why do i say that- because if people could get away with murders by just paying compensation. Wouldnt that be stupid, cause the rich will thrive on the sufferings of the poor, which contradicts Islam, as Islam aims to reduce social inequality, not increase it.

 

[JINOUGA]

You're still making no sense. The charity option is only possible in certain situations. If u were to kill someone today with intent, and found guilty, you would be killed according to sharia law, and no u cant give a compensation or another form of charity. That what Islam is."An eye for an eye" Its just. Why do i say that- because if people could get away with murders by just paying compensation. Wouldnt that be stupid, cause the rich will thrive on the sufferings of the poor, which contradicts Islam, as Islam aims to reduce social inequality, not increase it.

No. The Qur'an specifies compensation, if accepted by the victim's party, as sufficient punishment. Being a Muslim is first and foremost about obeying the Qur'an. The entire concept of Sharia, is as I said earlier, hardly concrete. Many Sharia laws that are deemed "concrete" are reliant on hadiths, an aspect of Islam that still has debatable relevance as it is the word of self professed Islamic historians compiled hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad (pbuh) and therefore not strictly speaking, "the word of Allah"

 

[moll.]

7eleven getting schooled in Islamic theology by Jin. Loving it.

 

[7eleven]

No. The Qur'an specifies compensation, if accepted by the victim's party, as sufficient punishment. Being a Muslim is first and foremost about obeying the Qur'an. The entire concept of Sharia, is as I said earlier, hardly concrete. Many Sharia laws that are deemed "concrete" are reliant on hadiths, an aspect of Islam that still has debatable relevance as it is the word of self professed Islamic historians compiled hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad (pbuh) and therefore not strictly speaking, "the word of Allah"

Okay, yep. Lets get this straight. From what im aware of, this applies excusively to man slaughter. And the decision of whether the killer is to pay a compensation, or have his life taken, lies in the hands of the relatives of the one killed.

"O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. (The Noble Quran, 2:178)"

 

[7eleven]

7eleven getting schooled in Islamic theology by Jin. Loving it.

WTH?

 

[7eleven]

7eleven getting schooled in Islamic theology by Jin. Loving it.

R u reffering to my school?

 

[7eleven]

The Qur'an legislates the death penalty for murder, although forgiveness and compassion are strongly encouraged. The murder victim's family is given a choice to either insist on the death penalty, or to pardon the perpetrator and accept monetary compensation for their loss (2:178).

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever has one of his relations murdered has the choice either to receive compensation thereto or have the killer killed.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (2434) and Sahîh Muslim (1355)]