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The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sun Herald (4 Viewers)

enoilgam

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"does society put too much pressure on students to achieve academically at the expense of a well-rounded education?"

I don't think this is the case. Academic achievement pretty much only matters in school and in uni. Out there, in "wider" society, being an all-rounded person applies much more. If anything, getting the most out of society requires an individual to be far more than academic. So really, society itself doesn't pressure people to achieve academically. What is pressuring students to achieve academically is getting onto a good launching pad by which to "jump" into society later as an adult and make the most of it. But once you've taken the dive, there is a lot more stuff apart from academics that decides what happens next
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Although I do think that in some areas, some people have a greatly distorted view of education where "Good ATAR = Good Uni degree = Good job = Good money = Good life". From here, people then assume that good ATAR = good life and this translates into them putting pressure on their kids or students to succeed. I think the pressure on high school students today has been increased by this distorted perception. Back 20 or 30 years ago academic achievement was still valued, but I dont think it was pushed as hard as it is today.
 

iBibah

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With regards to maths and science scaling specifically, they scale well because they are difficult. Even if you have a talent in them, they are still have more of a base difficulty than other subjects. Say for legal studies, it doesnt scale well because it is not that difficult - so if you have a talent in this subject, you have the advantage of being good at an easy subject, with the disadvantage of it's scaling (which isnt that bad anyway). Conversely, if you have a talent in physics, you have the disadvantage of being good at a difficult subject, whilst having the advantage of it's scaling. So the two kind of cancel each other out if that makes sense.
What you're saying is actually incorrect. Scaling is not based on the difficulty of a subject. It is based on the quality of the candidature. It just so happens that brighter students take harder subjects, hence why they scale better, because the students taking them are bright, not because it's a hard subject.
 

enoilgam

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What you're saying is actually incorrect. Scaling is not based on the difficulty of a subject. It is based on the quality of the candidature. It just so happens that brighter students take harder subjects, hence why they scale better, because the students taking them are bright, not because it's a hard subject.
Nonetheless, there is a strong correlation between difficulty and scaling. If I had to rank my subjects in terms of difficulty, you would find that the scaling would closely reflect that difficulty.

But yes, there is also a correlation between stronger students and higher scaling subjects.
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Oh your post makes me so angry, there are so many things wrong with it, it's ignorance and assumptions, I honestly don't know where to start.

• Just because I think their are flaws against competition, doesn't mean that I am completely, 100% against it. What I dislike is thrusting everyone into a competition, whether they want to or not.
• About law: You do realise that law is mostly 99.9% prestige? And the ATAR is not an accurate indicator of hard work. Having a 99.7 ATAR is a sign of popularity of a particular course, not having high standards. Some people are naturally gifted to science and mathematics, and hence, get scaled up. There are people who just do the basics and still get ATARs in the 70s and 80s, whilst some academically struggle, and feel excluded from tertiary education, because most universities are too lazy to offer alternative entry schemes
• Throughout your posts, I have never read an essence that you care about justice or fairness. You have that annoying ''just deal with it'' attitude.
• Oh please dude, I know the real world. I know the ugliness. I know that things will never change, as people are too attached to the status quo. A massive fuck you. You think I live in some princess world? Look at my avatar. It's from a film called Idi I Smotri (1985). A film where there is nothing but suffering and pain. And I watch it, and I think, I wanna make things better for as many people as I possibly can. Ever read the novel Requiem For A Dream? There is a line in it about the 'world laughing at his pain'' because of he feels that no one is there for him. A good educated individual isn't just someone with a degree and a high school certificate. It's someone who reads, has conversations with people, engages in people from different backgrounds, has an open mind... something which I never got from school.
• And lol, the board of studies does not cater to anyone with disorders, and neither does UAC. Only a very few small minority have been granted special provisions. People with chronic arm pain have been denied writers. People with ADHD only get ''rest breaks'' even though in American public schools, it's the fucking law that they get more provisions. I can't name a single person who has been granted extra time. You are ignorant. And lol... at UAC, they only give you 5 bonus points. Which doesn't help at all.
• " You need to really appreciate what you have." Sorry, depression is a mental condition, not a state of mind. It ruins your life, ruins your ability to study. Ignorant twat. Really, I deserve an apology. Every psychiartist, social worker, psychologist, councillor would agree with me, and cringe at what you are saying, and probably know alot more about suffering than you do. If you were bullied, you would know how destructive it is. That statement made this argument personal.
• And critical thinking is intelligence, as it shows your ability to comprehend interpretation and apply it to situation. It's the mixture of history, philosophy, arts- it shows the humanity and that not everything is black and white.
• And yes, of course being a doctor of hard. Getting in and staying is hard, yet there are doctors that do not care, neglect their patients, and do it for the cash. And it is so easy to fake ''doing the right thing''. I'm talking about doctors who don't listen to their patients. Doctors who do not actually care, just do the work to be ''adequate''.
No one's asking u to compete?
 

iBibah

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I agree with this wholeheartedly. Although I do think that in some areas, some people have a greatly distorted view of education where "Good ATAR = Good Uni degree = Good job = Good money = Good life". From here, people then assume that good ATAR = good life and this translates into them putting pressure on their kids or students to succeed. I think the pressure on high school students today has been increased by this distorted perception. Back 20 or 30 years ago academic achievement was still valued, but I dont think it was pushed as hard as it is today.
Maybe they don't assume that a good ATAR is the only way to a good life, but rather they want their children to take the opportunity given to them (ATAR abd uni) despite other options. My parents don't 'pressure' me into doing anything, but they do keep reminding me of the importance of my education and they motivate me to get the best ATAR I can, instead of saying "there are other ways, just relax". My brother did all he could and missed out on the required ATAR, so he then did a bridging course etc. to eventually get into his degree. He didn't waste to opportunity of the ATAR, he tried his best then took an alternate pathway, which is fine and was fully supported my parents.

The reason for parents (well at least mine) wanting us to reach our potential and get the best ATAR we can get is because we have the opportunity to do so, so why waste it? My parents came from somewhere where they never got the opportunity to do the things they wanted for many reasons. They came here and all these opportunities are presented to us, so they are not going to sit back and let us waste them. They don;t want us to be in the same position they might have been in, so they have to keep reminding us and effectively push us because we won't know what opportunities we have until they are taken away from us. And if we don't make the most of it, someone else will, and nowadays your competing with the whole world, not just your school or state. I'm not saying "Good ATAR = Good Life", but if we do get the chance for a "good ATAR", there is no point in wasting it just because there are other ways. So maybe their view isn't distorted per say, maybe our view of their view is distorted/misunderstood.
 

enoilgam

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Maybe they don't assume that a good ATAR is the only way to a good life, but rather they want their children to take the opportunity given to them (ATAR abd uni) despite other options. My parents don't 'pressure' me into doing anything, but they do keep reminding me of the importance of my education and they motivate me to get the best ATAR I can, instead of saying "there are other ways, just relax". My brother did all he could and missed out on the required ATAR, so he then did a bridging course etc. to eventually get into his degree. He didn't waste to opportunity of the ATAR, he tried his best then took an alternate pathway, which is fine and was fully supported my parents.

The reason for parents (well at least mine) wanting us to reach our potential and get the best ATAR we can get is because we have the opportunity to do so, so why waste it? My parents came from somewhere where they never got the opportunity to do the things they wanted for many reasons. They came here and all these opportunities are presented to us, so they are not going to sit back and let us waste them. They don;t want us to be in the same position they might have been in, so they have to keep reminding us and effectively push us because we won't know what opportunities we have until they are taken away from us. And if we don't make the most of it, someone else will, and nowadays your competing with the whole world, not just your school or state. I'm not saying "Good ATAR = Good Life", but if we do get the chance for a "good ATAR", there is no point in wasting it just because there are other ways. So maybe their view isn't distorted per say, maybe our view of their view is distorted/misunderstood.
I agree - my parents are the same as well. My overall message with this issue is extremes - when people take things to the extreme.

Like a guy I know, he is a nice guy but very naive and quite frankly, not gifted in academics. His bro on the other hand is a wizz at school and goes to some high ranking selective school (not going to say which). His parents used to spoil the brother and give this kid nothing because "he didnt go to a selective school so he didnt deserve it". Now he is stuck at uni in a degree which he is not capable of completing, heading for a career which he is certainly not capable of all because his parents will disown him if he drops out. That extreme is what I am against.
 

iBibah

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I agree - my parents are the same as well. My overall message with this issue is extremes - when people take things to the extreme.

Like a guy I know, he is a nice guy but very naive and quite frankly, not gifted in academics. His bro on the other hand is a wizz at school and goes to some high ranking selective school (not going to say which). His parents used to spoil the brother and give this kid nothing because "he didnt go to a selective school so he didnt deserve it". Now he is stuck at uni in a degree which he is not capable of completing, heading for a career which he is certainly not capable of all because his parents will disown him if he drops out. That extreme is what I am against.
+1

Definitely. My parents go by the idea of potential and skills. If you can become a doctor, have the potential to do so, and have the skills, then they're behind you all the way. If you have the potential and skills to become a builder, they remain behind you all the way, just as much as a doctor. That is why the question of "Who is smarter out of you kids?" pisses me off, because while I may be more academic than my siblings, it does not mean I am better than them. What you're saying about your mate is actually quite sad.
 

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Nonetheless, there is a strong correlation between difficulty and scaling. If I had to rank my subjects in terms of difficulty, you would find that the scaling would closely reflect that difficulty.

But yes, there is also a correlation between stronger students and higher scaling subjects.
Isn't this also because of the 'reputation' of the subjects? People assume the higher scaling subjects are more difficult and usually stronger students choose these subjects for whatever reason [the challenge, to boast, whatevs] - cohort is stronger = better scaling? Like if we scrapped everything and told everyone that business studies is the most difficult subject, couldn't that be like the new eco or 4u maths?
 

enoilgam

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Isn't this also because of the 'reputation' of the subjects? People assume the higher scaling subjects are more difficult and usually stronger students choose these subjects for whatever reason [the challenge, to boast, whatevs] - cohort is stronger = better scaling? Like if we scrapped everything and told everyone that business studies is the most difficult subject, couldn't that be like the new eco or 4u maths?
Interesting question - to be honest I'm not really sure. I think the scaling would remain the same maybe but realistically, I dont know what would happen
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Oh your post makes me so angry, there are so many things wrong with it, it's ignorance and assumptions, I honestly don't know where to start.• Just because I think their are flaws against competition, doesn't mean that I am completely, 100% against it. What I dislike is thrusting everyone into a competition, whether they want to or not.
No one is asking you to compete, and I apologise for the extensive use of 'deal with it' but in reality competition is a part of life and people will find a way to compete with other people in order to feel more powerful and no amount of education reform or dealing with society will change it.
• About law: You do realise that law is mostly 99.9% prestige? And the ATAR is not an accurate indicator of hard work. Having a 99.7 ATAR is a sign of popularity of a particular course, not having high standards. Some people are naturally gifted to science and mathematics, and hence, get scaled up. There are people who just do the basics and still get ATARs in the 70s and 80s, whilst some academically struggle, and feel excluded from tertiary education, because most universities are too lazy to offer alternative entry schemes
About law: you do realise that law is actually a course you need to work hard in and be dedicated to? An ATAR is an excellent indicator of hard work, it does not require someone to be a genius in order to get 98+, a lot of the HSC is built so that people dont have to be incredibly smart in order to get a great ATAR (i.e. the rote learning of most of the courses). Yes some students are naturally gifted in mathematics but there are some students gifted in humanity subjects/english, in the end a 100 will still fetch you a 99.95 ATAR equivalent for pretty much every subject, and although only a 94 or so is needed in 4U for a 99.95 atar equivalent its arguably much harder to get 94 in 4U than say a 97 in * insert humanity*. If you do the basics you are doing the subjects that the under performers of the state are doing and hence should know the outcomes of doing that (low scaling). And plus if you put in the hard work its very possible to get 85+ even with low scaling subjects. No universities arent too lazy, they are not going to accept people with lower atars because in general the lower atar you have the lower amount of hard work you put in (relative to subjects, but even then 85 or so will get you into a decent amount of courses). For example in a communistic society, in theory everyone gets payed equal, so a doctor gets payed the same as a garbage man. So where is the incentive to become a doctor, to go through alot of pain staking study and education only to get payed the same amount as someone who didnt need to even complete the HSC. In the same vein, what is the incentive for students to put in the hard work if they can just go through loopholes and such by only putting in half the effort?
• Throughout your posts, I have never read an essence that you care about justice or fairness. You have that annoying ''just deal with it'' attitude.
Maybe a lot of my posts do have that attitude, but in the end Im only speaking the truth and Im speaking what other people have in their minds too. No employer likes a whiner, no matter how big your dreams are you cant change this world, its too far deep in the capitalism to change now, you have to deal with the competition and the position you are dealt with. No point in going on a rant and accusing people of ridiculous things just because you were on the wrong side of competition or you were unlucky in life sometimes.
• Oh please dude, I know the real world. I know the ugliness. I know that things will never change, as people are too attached to the status quo. A massive fuck you. You think I live in some princess world? Look at my avatar. It's from a film called Idi I Smotri (1985). A film where there is nothing but suffering and pain. And I watch it, and I think, I wanna make things better for as many people as I possibly can. Ever read the novel Requiem For A Dream? There is a line in it about the 'world laughing at his pain'' because of he feels that no one is there for him. A good educated individual isn't just someone with a degree and a high school certificate. It's someone who reads, has conversations with people, engages in people from different backgrounds, has an open mind... something which I never got from school.
I can tell you that many people around the world in positions much worse than yours will tell you the same thing you have said to me. You may be able to connect with these movies but that in no way validates your argument anyway. Just because YOU feel in pain and suffering, just because YOU dont like how the world works, doesnt mean that they are wrong. Moreover you seem to misunderstand good education. Education is defined it is not as subjective as you like it to be, yes there is black and white in the world because we define them to be so. Education doesnt mean reading the bullshit other people have come up with, your post here is full of spite and you seem to shape your own definition to suit yourself, which is horrible. Education means being able to discipline your mind in order to think properly, to apply existing knowledge and use to them to develop proper communication and logical skills. I also personally hate it when people pull the 'open mind' argument, technically everyone has an open mind because everyone is always learning. Open mind does not mean you have to be hipster about everything. I personally got many things from school, like better communication and logical skills, school has given me the oppurtunity to learn about people from other cultures and backgrounds and hence given me a more open mind.
• And lol, the board of studies does not cater to anyone with disorders, and neither does UAC. Only a very few small minority have been granted special provisions. People with chronic arm pain have been denied writers. People with ADHD only get ''rest breaks'' even though in American public schools, it's the fucking law that they get more provisions. I can't name a single person who has been granted extra time. You are ignorant. And lol... at UAC, they only give you 5 bonus points. Which doesn't help at all.
Yes they do provide services to people with various disabilities, if you only applied to them maybe you would see how they treated you, and if you got rejected from them its just their message that you need to harden up and get on with it, that you are whining for no good reason. If 5 bonus points are not enough then nothing is tbh. 5 points is freaking massive.
• " You need to really appreciate what you have." Sorry, depression is a mental condition, not a state of mind. It ruins your life, ruins your ability to study. Ignorant twat. Really, I deserve an apology. Every psychiartist, social worker, psychologist, councillor would agree with me, and cringe at what you are saying, and probably know alot more about suffering than you do. If you were bullied, you would know how destructive it is. That statement made this argument personal.
Sorry, you still need to appreciate what you have mate, you can see, you can breathe you have a house and you have an education. Something other people dont have, yet you have other people with disabilities manage to seize the day, you have people getting over their depression and putting their life back on track. You deserve an apology for me telling you stop whining yet nearly every post you make you insult me? (Not that I care, I thought it was just peculiar that you think you deserve an apology). Moreover you have been giving way too many assumptions about me, thinking that I am absolutely well off that no problem has occupied my life or anything. Whether its true or not you simply dont know that over the course of my life there may have been troubles, and that is truly ignorant of you.
• And critical thinking is intelligence, as it shows your ability to comprehend interpretation and apply it to situation. It's the mixture of history, philosophy, arts- it shows the humanity and that not everything is black and white.
No, critical thinking comes with intelligence, mostly if you are intelligent you are able to critically think but critically analyzing things isnt what defines intelligence. History is very imprecise and most of non-logic based philosophy is utter bull as well. There are some things that are black and white, and almost everything can be traced back on to something that originated as black or white (logic). We arent all irrational.
• And yes, of course being a doctor of hard. Getting in and staying is hard, yet there are doctors that do not care, neglect their patients, and do it for the cash. And it is so easy to fake ''doing the right thing''. I'm talking about doctors who don't listen to their patients. Doctors who do not actually care, just do the work to be ''adequate''.
Of course, if you are not a good doctor then you arent a good doctor simple as that money driven or not. A lot of doctors although money driven still care greatly about their patients because no matter how money-hungry you are, you still feel as though this guy's health and wellbeing is in my hands and hence I need to take absolute care.
 
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In terms of having a more well rounded education, I'd like to see more teaching of practical life skills at some point during school. Whilst acknowledging that these should primarily be the responsibility of parents, I especially find it a failure of the system that many students graduate and enter the real world without having some of these skills. Schools have a role in teaching financial literacy especially I think.

My school a few years after I finished started the following program:

The Program is run in Year 10 and involves students stepping aside from their usual program of study to experience training in a variety of life skills.

The Program has caught the imagination of the Australian public with elements of it being featured on television, radio and in the print media. Course content typically includes instruction in areas such as:
Financial literacy - how to budget, credit card management, saving, investments and wealth creation
Domestic skills - cooking cleaning, mending and a King's version of an ‘iron man’ competition
Sex and intimacy - dating, sexual relationships, on-line relationships, promiscuity and pornography
Etiquette and manners
Car maintenance, safety and management
A ‘reflective journey’, involving a five day trek and water-based activities, forms part of the Program.
 

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Just giving my two cents about the scaling- the system is set up fairly and 4U maths scales better because the quality of the candidature that sit it is much higher. It deserves to scale higher to compensate for the fact that you are likely to get a lower rank in the course because you are competing against better people. Having said this- the system is stacked towards people who are naturally good at maths and sciences. If you are naturally very talented at maths, you will get say 93 in 4U very confortably and this scales to an ATAR equivalent of 99.95. By contrast, if you are naturally strong in the histories say, you need 96+ in modern (which is state rank or close to it) to achieve the same result. In a way, I think the system overcompensates towards people who are good at maths and stuff but I know a lot of you will disagree with me on this so I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.
Actually, it's quite far (relatively) from a state rank. A state rank in Modern is 98+, depending on the year - of course!
 

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Oh ok- didn't know that. My point was that I think if you look at someone with similar natural ability, the guy with the ability leaning towards the sciences/maths's wins out over the guy with ability in the humanities
 

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Oh ok- didn't know that. My point was that I think if you look at someone with similar natural ability, the guy with the ability leaning towards the sciences/maths's wins out over the guy with ability in the humanities
Don't quote me on this, but a 96 in physics or chem is roughly equal to around a 96 in Modern.
 

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^ IMO the current system is correct: Any concept based subject should deserve the higher scaling. Subjects like Chem, Phy require more than just memorising content to achieve good marks (although a lot of is memorising lol)
Humanities is definitely not disadvantaged, Economics is a concept-based subject and scaled as high as Physics last year (although the Physic paper last year was easier than previous).

I dont do history etc but i could expect it as just remembering a lot of content and forming a thesis etc for discussions (yr10 experience)
 

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The question is though, is the 93 in MX2 harder to obtain then the 96 in history. Lets say you have two people - one is talented in maths and one is talented in history and they talent they have is equal (sounds like something from economics). Now, would both people be able to score a mark in their respective subjects which scales equally?
I'd say possibly. I know for sure I'm not a maths person, so it is easier for me to do better in history, while some others can get 97 in 4 Unit maths and absolutely hate writing essays like in history :p
 

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^ IMO the current system is correct: Any concept based subject should deserve the higher scaling. Subjects like Chem, Phy require more than just memorising content to achieve good marks (although a lot of is memorising lol) Humanities is definitely not disadvantaged, Economics is a concept-based subject and scaled as high as Physics last year (although the Physic paper last year was easier than previous). I dont do history etc but i could expect it as just remembering a lot of content and forming a thesis etc for discussions (yr10 experience)
I do both Chem, Phys and Ancient History - at least in the sciences you don't need to write 3 essays ish in 2 hours mkay, far more easier. Content memorisation - about the same, though physics has the least theory questions in the written section compared to chem, which is of course less than the history subjects. but as with any subject, put work in, should get a good mark. No work, don't deserve one. No subject is 'low maintenance'.
 

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I do both Chem, Phys and Ancient History - at least in the sciences you don't need to write 3 essays ish in 2 hours mkay, far more easier. Content memorisation - about the same, though physics has the least theory questions in the written section compared to chem, which is of course less than the history subjects. but as with any subject, put work in, should get a good mark. No work, don't deserve one. No subject is 'low maintenance'.
That is definitely correct. No subject is "low maintenance", but are much less stressful to revise for e.g. general maths.
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

I told you about fairness already, you seem to think that fairness is having everyone ok with crappy marks in school. No, employers wont be happy with an unproductive person, and that unproductive person is unproductive because they learnt nothing in their years of schooling. And ATAR is a reflection of how hard you work, if you get a 50 ATAR it means you dont know how to work and hence you dont find a uni.
Yes, employers are cheap - they outsource people - pay them dirt poor to new migrants/overseas workers in order to cut costs. Yes, they don't like unproductive people, but more to that they're willing to cut local jobs (although with productive people) to favour the overseas job market because they're cheaper. No, unproductive people don't stem from learning nothing in their years of schooling. Some people are lazy, getting bored of their job or 'go play when the manager's out' - it is inevitable that humans are naturally lazy - this has got nothing to do with schooling mate. I mean, if you were doing an actuarial job for 8 years just for the pay (and it is pretty repetitive), you are bound to lose interest and possibly become unproductive, even though you have the skillset (which is why you are employed in the first place). Unproductivity can stem from a lack of change of routine or movement in general, it's not because of incomplete education. ATAR - it is described by the UAC as a way for unis to assess candidates on their readiness for university study for certain courses. It is not necessarily a reflection of how hard you work, it is a rank. Some people may put more effort to get an ATAR of 80 than some others, depends on the individual. Getting an ATAR of 50 doesn't mean 'you don't know how to work'. You seem to be drawing a shallow black and white conclusion, not everyone can get an ATAR of 80+, there may be underlying factors, etc. This is an insult, to say this - do you think any individual with an ATAR of 50 doesn't know how to work? Not every individual has a nourishing environment or is the same, how about a student with brain damage doing the HSC and getting an ATAR of 50 - is it conclusive to say they don't know how to work? And plus, you can still find a uni with an ATAR of 50 - there's some alternative pathways. And in some cases, the ATAR is not required.
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Academia is a wonderful and very beautiful thing and so is competition, competition allows us to see the extent of what the human brain can show us. The Russians being the first to space was a great engineering and scientific achievement and was only available to come about due to the rivalry and competition between the Soviets and the US (then comes Apollo moon landing etc.) I could go on further and further about how competition has advanced the human civilisation and how it has shown the true potential of the human brain. The ability the human brain has if we just put in a little grunt work. If you havent learnt anything worthwile during the last 6 years of your schooling and you are typecasted as a dumb idiot then they have a point. Its stupid to simply ignore this education and be totally ignorant about it 'oh whinge whinge the world isnt how I like it to be, too competitive whinge whinge'. But of course maybe you also didnt learn anything because of your decision to pick crappy subjects (still your fault for picking them). Even though Im only at the beginning of my HSC I can easily say that I have learnt ALOT of things about the world around me, about philosophy and and at the same time picking up good life skills. Ridiculous.
I wouldn't classify competition as beautiful - it's just apparent because of supply & demand. Too much demand = competition. But the way you put it makes me vision HSC being The Hunger Games and everyone's just mad to get the 99.95 lol - which is a white lie and also one of ambivalence. "If you havent learnt anything worthwile during the last 6 years of your schooling and you are typecasted as a dumb idiot then they have a point. " - A bit too harsh there, you are encouraging to call people 'dumb idiots' - they graduated from school, meaning they should be eligible for the HSC - are they dumb idiots after all? "But of course maybe you also didnt learn anything because of your decision to pick crappy subjects (still your fault for picking them). " - I highly disagree. You are doing the "Asian 5" - which can be glossed over shallowly as 'high scaling subjects, chosen just to get a high ATAR'. Doing these, I'm sure, aren't to give yourself mightiness over those who choose not to right? I'm pretty sure you don't do MX2 'to sound good', as in 'smart' to have a good impression to others. What constitutes 'crappy' subjects on the other hand? Are my choices of IPT and Ancient History 'crappy' because they're aren't part of the Asian 5, renowned subjects for 'high scaling'? To simply pick on others for doing 'crappy' subjects as a reason to not learn anything is shallow and totally irrelevant. In that case, you seem to make everyone doing the non 'crappy' subjects to be learning something, even if they aren't that good in them. I don't know what logic this is, but anyone can simply not learn for any reason - little motivation to learn has nothing to do with picking 'crappy' subjects or not, in you case I should be a lazy person for simply not doing the "Asian 5", i.e. crap subjects. They are at fault for not supporting their learning, not because of 'crappy' subjects. Yes I agree that people should have gained something from their life of schooling, at least they can say so on their resumé. "Even though Im only at the beginning of my HSC I can easily say that I have learnt ALOT of things about the world around me, about philosophy and and at the same time picking up good life skills." - seems like you have already achieved the outcomes of the English HSC course already before your trials! Well done. But at the same time, you seem to draw narrow conclusions instead of open ended ones, simply attributing each to a 'cause and effect'. At the same time you do sound conceited, especially since you have not graduated from school yet. Do you know what it is like to invest in property, or go to a job interview or sell a house? You may say you may know a lot of things, but you don't know everything, especially at the tender age of
 

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