Does ATAR Relect Difficulty of Course? (1 Viewer)

[Pete1555]

Hey all!!

So I was just thinking about the ATAR cut-offs of certain university courses, & I didn't quite know how the ATAR requirement is found. From what I've been told, the ATAR cut-off goes higher due to the high demand of the course, so it fluctuates from year to year. However, does the ATAR requirement reflect the difficulty of the course? So for example, will Bachelor of Science which has a cut off of ~70, be easier compared to Bachelor of Business which has a cut off of ~90? Also do all universities teach the same course as others? e.g. UTS BBus, same as Maq BBus?

Thanks!

 

[Dan895]

Well I suppose difficulty is subjective so I may find a fine arts degree much harder than a science degree which would differ from person to person. But really when it comes down to it the ATAR cut offs are ultimately reflective of demand / universities standards. As opposed to the difficulty.

 

[ExcelHSC]

No, it's the popularity and demand.

 

[jnney]

I don't think that you can compare the 'difficulty' of courses. It's kind of like saying - which tastes better, tea or orange juice? Or, which subject is easier, 4u english or 2u maths? It's all relative.

Basically, each course will only accept a certain number of students each year. E.g. Medical science at UNSW accepts 200 students each year. The ATAR cut-off for this course is dependent on its popularity - i.e. how many people want to do it. Hundreds of students apply for this course each year. But there are only 200 places. Therefore, UNSW will accept the top 200 ATARS out of all the candidates. Hence, its high demand results in its high ATAR cut-off, which is 94 this year, i.e. the 200th place offered into Medical Science received an ATAR of 94.

But let's say that the demand to study Medical Science decreased dramatically, and only 100 students wanted to study it. All of the candidates would be accepted. If the 100th person received an ATAR of 84, then the cut-off for Medical Science that year would drop from 94 to 84 for that year.

The same logic is applied to other courses such as B. Arts which accommodate a large volume of students. For example, if B. Arts offers 500 places at UNSW, then the ATAR cut-off for B. Arts would reflect the 500th (and last) student accepted into the course. Because B. Arts is able to accomodate a much higher number of students in comparison to B. Medical Science, its ATAR cut-off is lower regardless of its popularity.


Therefore, ATAR cut-off for a course is a combination of 1. its demand, and 2. the number of places offered.

 

[astaroth]

But there are a few courses[such as Actuarial Studies] where the ATAR cut off does reflect difficulty, right?

 

[MiPh]

I don't think that you can compare the 'difficulty' of courses. It's kind of like saying - which tastes better, tea or orange juice? Or, which subject is easier, 4u english or 2u maths? It's all relative.

Orange Juice
/thread

 

[LoveHateSchool]

No, it's definitely not reflective of difficulty in MOST cases. It is based on supply/demand, although some courses have set high cut offs due to their difficulty or some difficult courses are in very high demand too.

Cases of courses with pass/fail that have small candidature so have a very high cut off. Where other courses with low demand, the lower echleons of ATAR grades that can make it in would actually really struggle with it due to the difficulty.

 

[Kingportable]

There is a quote from animal farm "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others" this is essentially the rule of thumb for differentiating courses. Really they are all competent schools and what you should be worrying about is convenience and location but the reality your working 3 to 5 years for a nice set of words in ruseme some have more prestige than others plainly they have more funding or history or maybe a industry leading faculty in which the best of the best educators flock to because of the facilities. Really you can learn half of this crap from a book and a genius will be a genius anywhere hell not even within the walls of a Uni just ask Ramanujan. One of the ways something like this relates with the current Law grad market comparing USYD who has has a heavy handed individually focused course with high demand and a national reputation for its faculty, with UWS (seriously i heard banks where avoiding UWS law grads all together) which does not share the same reputation and further has the reputation to give away Law degrees a lot easier than Uni's like USYD does. Employers tend move a way from common UWS grads to USYD grads (not counting other factors like established career and academic achievements). But still if you left with like 100% average from UWS and other stellar records you would be fine. What's the point? A genius will be a genius any where.

Also ATAR cutoff's are recalculated each year the cut-offs you see right now were for the Year 12s of 2012 no one know what the cutoffs for 2013 year 12s are until offers are given although they seem to be fairly constant. That goes back to the point of faculties usually if a course has a high ATAR cut-off (not over 90 but more like 99.7) while other courses from other Unis have a cut off of 80 or 90 then there is high demand for this course and hence by rule of thumb, since high ATAR children can be assumed to know their shit, these schools must have the superior or at least Industry leading faculty. But then high ATAR children are smart and just choose the course they live nearest to with the most decent faculty and also the courses they are most interested in not the one the least people can get in to or the most difficult (they perceive). Also you also need to factor in that a lower capability to handle high demand (driving up ATAR cutoffs) as just a general low availability of seats in the course so a high ATAR cutoff may not mean superiority at all so you have to do your research. High Atar cutoffs hardly signal difference in difficulty at all just plainly demand, reputation for difficulty signals difficulty. UNSW and USYD are known to be super demanding with a very strict Distinction and High Distinction quota where not all the high performing kids get honours but the highest of whom within the quote which is messed up.

 

[BoSsip Gurl]

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[brent012]

As everyone has said cutoffs are only determined by supply/demand. There is nothing particularly demanding about the average Business or Commerce courses but a lot of people want to do them. Different courses are for different kinds of people and some might find one course difficult and another easy but the next person might have the completely opposite experience. Just as an example the average Engineering student would probably not enjoy doing or be good at writing essays or like a critical analysis etc. so they might be challenged by or recieve average marks in an Arts degree despite the wide spread reputation of B Arts as an easy degree. Throw the average high achieving Arts student into a first year Engineering subject, something like maths or physics, and they are going to struggle. Computer sciences courses in the last 10 years have dropped from having mid-high 90s cut off to barely even being 90+, but the difficulty hasn't changed.

Also +1 to what LHS is saying. With all the bonus point schemes around now and relatively low cut offs for degrees like science it's fairly easy to get into courses which can be difficult so unfortunately people are going to struggle.

As for unis teaching the same courses, no. But there are similarities - especially for courses where there is a professional body who has to accredit the course. Macq don't even have a B Bus, Commerce at Macquarie is more comparable to Business at UTS. The Business Administration course or whatever at Macq is a bit different.