Commerce Law info (1 Viewer)

[walshy57]

Hi everyone,
Going into the Sydney and UTS open days yesterday I got thinking about my uni degree.
I'm hoping for an atar around 98 and want to do a combined commerce law degree.
I wasn't very impressed by Sydney but really liked uts and the business/law course, but also found out last night that I get 2 bonus points for UNSW commerce law which means I can get in with 97.65 if I make the atar.

Can anyone with an idea about the two courses (unsw & uts) please advise me about the pros and cons of each one (for example I live on the north shore so probs not too keen for the travel to unsw), and why one would be better than the other, and a conclusion of which one you would choose.

Thanks so much for the help!

 

[Crobat]

Well I guess one of the pros of UTS is that it doesn't take too long to get to, and that quite a few of the law tutors (at least the ones that I have had) have said that they teach at both UTS and UNSW, and one of the major benefits at UTS is definitely the smaller seminar classes. It allows for students to become more engaged in seminars and makes the whole learning experience a lot more thought-provoking than mere textbook work. Another benefit at UTS is a lot of practical law competitions which you can enter starting in your first year, such as Client Interviewing, Mooting, Negotiations, Witness Examinations, etc (http://www.utslss.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=189&Itemid=150), which quite a few are sponsored by law firms. A lot of the people considering transferring across to UNSW/USYD at the moment are saying that this is one of the main reasons they are considering staying at UTS, because the practical experience is both enjoyable and useful and (I can't confirm this) unique to UTS (although to be fair, these are simple competitions so I don't really see how they'd make you more employable in the long run). There are also programs such as the UTS Justic Brennan (former CJ of the High Court) and Leadership Program (http://www.law.uts.edu.au/brennan/) which can look very impressive on your CV, as well as an active LSS that helps you complete the program. On the business side of things, I can say my experience has only been positive. The lecturers and tutors are all amazing at teaching you the material, and the Bsoc is always holding meet & greets with top business firms such as PwC, Deloitte, CPA, E&Y, etc, so there are plenty of opportunities to get involved with the firms.

Some of the cons are the fact that UTS isn't a Go8 uni so reputation/prestige wise UTS suffers a far bit more than it should. However, employment wise, it doesn't look like it's terribly killing UTS, http://www.uts.edu.au/about/university/facts-figures-and-rankings/uts-graduate-employment. Not having a single campus also means that unless you are dedicated, the uni social life is a bit more difficult to be involved with. Another thing is that the uni doesn't receive as much funding, and so things like licences to go onto databases becomes a problem when doing legal research as the amount of people that are allowed on the website at any one time is limited. Also being surrounded by like every fast food outlet and restaurant in town is pretty bad for the health and wallet, but that's not a real con

I can't speak for UNSW because I don't go there, but my experiences with the uni have always been positive and it is one of the best unis around. I suggest going to a UNSW open day, but I'm curious to hear that you are offered bonus points for Law because my understanding is that Law never gets bonus points . But at the end of the day, both unis are good choices and your decision will come down to which ever uni you'd enjoy being at more. You'll get used to the travel, according to most of my friends there, and you start to just use that time for readings anyway.

Edit: One of the more aggravating things about UTS is the lack of second semester scholarships (again to do with funding). The only ones available are for indigenous australians, for the science/engineering faculties, or for honours kids.

 

[Trans4M]

Well since I go to UNSW and am involved with Law Soc, I can say some good things about us

Starting first year, you are eligible to compete in all our competitions Mooting, Negotiations, Client Interviewing and Trial Advocacy. All of these comps are also sponsored by law firms, most of which are the Big 6. Our Mooting and Negotiation Competitions are divided into three divisions Advanced/Senior, Intermediate and Beginners. When you compete in these two comps, you will only be vsing people in your year. Registering for competitions is free and you can compete in as many as you want and as many times as you want.

If you are successful in our internal competitions (the one we organise), you can apply to represent UNSW. The Law Society will generally pay for all your registration/accommodation expenses and subsidise your flight cost. An example would be the ALSA July Conference (national competition) where we paid $850 for registration/accommodation and $250 for flights per competitor. My understanding is that we are one of the very few universities to subsidise such a substantial amount.

In addition, we are the only Australian university to compete at the ICC Mediation Competition, participation is by invite only. If you get selected by the uni, all your expenses will be paid for. The comp is held in Paris every year around February.

We also get a lot of funding from sponsorship and this means we can organise events even if we don't break even from ticket sales e.g. law cruise.

On the academic side, classes are fairly small in the first few years ranging from 20-40 students. In senior years it can get a bit bigger. Exams are open book meaning you don't have to memorise case names and sections of the legislation. The university tests your application of the law and not memory of the law. Note open book exams are not necessarily easier. Also in first year, there are free peer tutoring sessions. Each session is ran by a senior student who did really well in the course and you will only be with at max 4 other first years. There are also opportunities for outside the classroom e.g. internships/clinics and these count as subjects.

On the Commerce side, it is quite a flexible degree. You will be exposed to most of the area in first year before you decide on your major. The ASB also runs PASS session which are free peer tutoring sessions. Unlike the law ones, these ones can be as large as 30 students in a room. There are quite a few different societies e.g. UNIT, FMAA and BSOC. Each of them organise different things e.g. competitions, info sessions etc.


The CONS:
I guess travelling time but it isn't too bad. I am quite use to it and don't really mind it. The trek from lower campus to upper campus can be a bit of a pain. The affordable food on campus don't really taste that great and those that taste great cost a fair amount. Enrolment period for each semester can be quite annoying. Everyone is competing for the ideal timetable and it's first in. We don't offer PLT in our degree so after graduating you need to go to College of Law to be certified as a practitioner. This is what UTS has over us, PLT is incorporated into their degree.

 

[D94]

but also found out last night that I get 2 bonus points for UNSW commerce law which means I can get in with 97.65 if I make the atar.

If that's from the HSC Plus Scheme, then there are no bonus points for Combined Law at UNSW.

 

[Crobat]

Starting first year, you are eligible to compete in all our competitions Mooting, Negotiations, Client Interviewing and Trial Advocacy. All of these comps are also sponsored by law firms, most of which are the Big 6. Our Mooting and Negotiation Competitions are divided into three divisions Advanced/Senior, Intermediate and Beginners. When you compete in these two comps, you will only be vsing people in your year. Registering for competitions is free and you can compete in as many as you want and as many times as you want.

As a competitor in both Client Interviewing and Negotiation I can testify that being able to only compete with your year group would be major benefit. Having to compete with 3rd, 4th, 5th, and PLT students in particular is daunting and frustrating and you feel at quite a disadvantage due to your lesser exposure to the legal system. Then again there's a huge amount of satisfaction that comes from beating a team from the higher year groups

And I should also mention that UTS also offers the opportunity to compete at ALSA with paid flight and accommodation, but you need to be the winner of the senior negotiation competition to do so. Furthermore, in terms of mooting, UTS offers an 'award-winning' program that has seen UTS to be the first Australian university to compete in the international Price Media Law Moot and lose the finals by only 1 point. http://www.uts.edu.au/future-students/law/beyond-classroom/mooting-competition-program

It appears the unis are on level footing in terms of the practical legal competitions, however, I think it's worth mentioning that as the UNSW LSS is sponsored by more Big 6 Law firms, they definitely have the advantage of more funding and more connections to the firms themselves (which is really important for a prospective lawyer).

 

[Drifting95]

If that's from the HSC Plus Scheme, then there are no bonus points for Combined Law at UNSW.

is the EAS scheme not available for law as well? I presume not.

Both UNSW and UTS if anyone can help.

 

[D94]

is the EAS scheme not available for law as well? I presume not.

Both UNSW and UTS if anyone can help.

EAS does count to Law.

http://www.law.unsw.edu.au/future-students/undergraduate/entry/access-scheme

 

[Drifting95]

EAS does count to Law.

http://www.law.unsw.edu.au/future-students/undergraduate/entry/access-scheme

Wow didn't expect that, thanks man !