BOS Voting Intentions: 2013 Federal Election (2 Viewers)

[Lolsmith]

So let me get this straight... Since there's no demand for a particular set of skills, the government should discriminate and serve a particular industries' special interest by eliminating competition? By that logic, I'm sure you propose that we subsidize all industries that have little demand behind them?

The government isn't just shelling out money to people because they want it. They're supplying money to keep people in jobs because the alternative is worse. Having thousands of individuals' livelihoods go down the tubes all at the same time is incredibly irresponsible. It's callous and it's poor economic management. Having thousands on welfare, extended unemployment, plus the myriad of social issues that spill into a community with high unemployment.

Subsidies reduce competition and hurt consumers. Subsidies reduce labor market mobility. Subsidies distort prices and retard the allocation of resources. Subsidies ULTIMATELY destroy the workers they are out to protect (What happens when Holden eventually closes down and workers are too old to re-train?)

They don't "destroy the workers", they just sustain dying industries. There are workers at Holden right now that are too old to retrain. There are lots of people that won't be able to find meaningful employment once the doors close, sure. That's why in the meantime you have efforts to wind down and help people become more flexible in their skillset as to minimise the loss. The alternative you are proposing to having bad industries "destroy the workers" is to throw them and their families out onto the street. How is this a better outcome?

So please, stop trying to justify protectionism (those arguments died along time ago). It makes you seem like an economic illiterate

That's not the argument being made here and assuming it is quite telling.

let me preface by saying I'm not a diehard liberal at all. I'm somewhat disillusioned with Australian politics in general, as the parties as a whole seem to deviate from their intellectual basis purely for political gain. (but hey that's politics)

But nonetheless, how the hell is smaller less intrusive government, fascist? In any sense of the word?

I find it funny that you can equate the economic right with fascism. The economic right is the antithesis of fascism. If anything, the left portrays a higher degree of fascism. Enforced coercion in the form of wealth redistribution or interventionism IS more fascist than liberal free markets (which are, by definition, the opposite of state coercion).

He was being facetious mate

And the Liberal party isn't on the right for economics (to any real degree) and there is a fuckload more to fascism than that.

 

[Graney]

When other businesses are laying off staff, they get less, idk, auto industry has had it pretty cushy for a long time. Thinking about fairness, justice. Most peoples parents I know were laid off now and then, and there's no special treatment. Dad's an academic, he has been worrying about job retention always, massive uni staff cuts occur periodically. The scale of redundancy in the auto industry means something I guess.

I can accept govt help for adjustment/retraining might be good, aren't people in industries other than the auto industry equally deserving though?

Do you think a 37 year old assembly line worker with a wife and two kids can survive on an apprentice's wage?

Mature age apprentice wages are not that bad.

 

[db94]

Theoretically, pricing carbon reduces emissions. Does that make a carbon tax valid and economically sound? No.

Just because you've 'done economics', you cant just dismiss opposing views purely on that basis. Economics is not a science; there are rational, theoretically sound arguments AGAINST a carbon tax, does that mean I can dismiss your theory purely on the basis of the logic behind mine? No...

So please, don't use your supposed authority of 'doing economics' to patronise any opposing argument.

+1

In the end though, Abbott will win; there's no doubt about it. Whilst I do agree that Abbott is a shit speaker in the way he mumbles, but that really doesn't reflect how he would do as PM. You've also gotta remember that you elect the PARTY and not the leader. Unfortunately, the way this campaign has been run you'd think its a presidential election. Ill be glad to see the end of Rudd, he a maniac and I cant see him sticking around after the loss. INB4 butt hurt Labor people blame murdoch press for loss

 

[funkshen]

When other businesses are laying off staff, they get less, idk, auto industry has had it pretty cushy for a long time. Thinking about fairness, justice. Most peoples parents I know were laid off now and then, and there's no special treatment. Dad's an academic, he has been worrying about job retention always, massive uni staff cuts occur periodically. The scale of redundancy in the auto industry means something I guess.

I can accept govt help for adjustment/retraining might be good, aren't people in industries other than the auto industry equally deserving though?

i agree with what you've said, but what makes the auto industry unique is that that government assistance has been the lifeblood of the industry for some time. as a result, thousands of workers possess skills and experience that just aren't in demand - they have almost no labour market mobility. just to be clear, i think that this all should have happened much sooner, and that the government has been incredibly irresponsible in prolonging the life of the auto industry over the past 30 years. but hanging these high productivity workers out to dry is economically irresponsible.

Mature age apprentice wages are not that bad.

they're not great, either, and when you consider working hours and benefits it will be a huge hit to anyone with a mortgage and kids.

 

[lee337]

+1

In the end though, Abbott will win; there's no doubt about it. Whilst I do agree that Abbott is a shit speaker in the way he mumbles, but that really doesn't reflect how he would do as PM. You've also gotta remember that you elect the PARTY and not the leader. Unfortunately, the way this campaign has been run you'd think its a presidential election. Ill be glad to see the end of Rudd, he a maniac and I cant see him sticking around after the loss. INB4 butt hurt Labor people blame murdoch press for loss

Inb4 gloat. Inb4 Abbott is worse. Inb4 Arabian-tier rich/poor ratio.

 

[Riproot]

haha...yea ok then mr upper tier mensa lolol

You can really be quite sillly sometimes you know townie? Its really quite entertaining

This is stupid
People can have high IQ scores and be quite stupid
e.g. Children can have IQ scores upwards of 120 and not know shit about anything.

Labour: NBN to be completed in 15/20 years with high transfer speeds. (Who the fck wants to wait that long, by that time that crap will be outdated and their will be new technology)
Liberal: Use currently available optic fibres to complete NBN within 5 years at much lower speeds (means nothing for the long term, will only provide short term benefits, which in itself wont be much).

What technology can you suggest is faster than fibre? Which is light. The speed of light~~~~

Labor is clearly the better choice on this issue.

edit: one thing i really hate about labour is their hypocrisy. They go on about how australia should be a "good middle power" getting involved in intl' development and humanitarian operations, which is all fine an dandy. Then they pull the whole "LOL WE WONT RESETTLE BOAT PEOPLE IN AUS." Good job labour, way to be a good middle power.

But it is essential to remember Libs do the same.

I think greens win out on the refugee issues

Have you done economics before?

Business that don't want to pay the tax won't pollute as much, and furthermore , this will compensate for the negative externalities produced by factories with high pollution. FYI, it's called a pigovian tax or corrective tax. Want me to draw the graph ?

dis guy knows

yes please

Although I am not a fan of either of the major parties at the moment, it's surprising to see so many on BOS voting for libs with all the planned cuts to the student sector. I guess you must all be rich, or something.

Yeah, I don't fucking understand that.
I'm poor as shit.And not nearly rural enough to get any of the National Party's proposed benefits

Kevin Rudd in 2008-2010 gave generous tax cuts to the mega rich (millionaires and billionaires) in Australia (more tax cuts than John Howard could ever dream). Now that Kevin Rudd is back expect the rich to get richer. The Coalition will copy Labor's tax reforms. Labor wants to promote self reliance, hard work and entrepreneurship. Kevin Rudd is right of centre as manifested by his design of the Papua New Guinea/ Nauru Resettlement Solution for Asylum seekers. Kevin Rudd is more right wing than John Howard. Kevin Rudd is also terminating the carbon tax.

I agree with a few things here.
KRudd is pretty Labor Right and anyone that uses the ~leftism~ of the Labor party to vote for the Libs this election haven't been paying attention.
I'm most-likely going Green because of this.

Most people are pretty rational in reality.

business people**

Or we can have a too big to fail situation and end up like detroit. You can't always support a dying industry, sure you'll help it survive a few more years to stave off the inevitable and most of your arguments are highly emotional with the whole "omg job loss!" There are other manufacturing jobs people can go into in Australia. When you start looking at the micro level too intensely, youre missing the forest for the trees.

I think you're underestimating the amount of people holden and ford employ
they cant just all go and get new jobs at the same time
and there would be no industry for their training

most meat packing jobs are most often rural, pay far less than automotive jobs do, and i guarantee the meat packing (and domestic manufacturing in general) industry can't soak up somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 autoworkers.

ford has been negotiating the winding down of domestic manufacturing with the federal government for years. the australian government is coordinating with ford to improve and create employment opportunities for redundant workers through the Automotive Industry Structural Adjustment Program. this is exactly what i advocate. thanks for making my point.

we're already letting them have subsidies and no one else is begging for them (beyond wanting free money in general), so what is your point?

this

The government isn't just shelling out money to people because they want it. They're supplying money to keep people in jobs because the alternative is worse. Having thousands of individuals' livelihoods go down the tubes all at the same time is incredibly irresponsible. It's callous and it's poor economic management. Having thousands on welfare, extended unemployment, plus the myriad of social issues that spill into a community with high unemployment.

They don't "destroy the workers", they just sustain dying industries. There are workers at Holden right now that are too old to retrain. There are lots of people that won't be able to find meaningful employment once the doors close, sure. That's why in the meantime you have efforts to wind down and help people become more flexible in their skillset as to minimise the loss. The alternative you are proposing to having bad industries "destroy the workers" is to throw them and their families out onto the street. How is this a better outcome?

All dis

He was being facetious mate

And the Liberal party isn't on the right for economics (to any real degree) and there is a fuckload more to fascism than that.

the ALP and LNC are pretty much evenly economically right atm imho

When other businesses are laying off staff, they get less, idk, auto industry has had it pretty cushy for a long time. Thinking about fairness, justice. Most peoples parents I know were laid off now and then, and there's no special treatment. Dad's an academic, he has been worrying about job retention always, massive uni staff cuts occur periodically. The scale of redundancy in the auto industry means something I guess.

I can accept govt help for adjustment/retraining might be good, aren't people in industries other than the auto industry equally deserving though?

And it is pretty alarming when academics which can bring innovation to the country are less supported than those that assemble falcodores.

+1

In the end though, Abbott will win; there's no doubt about it. Whilst I do agree that Abbott is a shit speaker in the way he mumbles, but that really doesn't reflect how he would do as PM. You've also gotta remember that you elect the PARTY and not the leader. Unfortunately, the way this campaign has been run you'd think its a presidential election. Ill be glad to see the end of Rudd, he a maniac and I cant see him sticking around after the loss. INB4 butt hurt Labor people blame murdoch press for loss

The Murdoch press may well be the cause of a loss in this country
A lot of people are fucking stupid

 

[loversinjapan]

Palmer

 

[Tasteless]

ahahahahahahh shit

 

[Lentern]

1) Green
2) Clive
3) Future Party
4) Labor
5) Family First
6) Liberal
7) Democrats
8) Bobkat
9) Christian Democrats

Largest consideration was asylum seekers and immigration.

 

[Graney]

2) Clive
.

Interesting. I hadn't considered actually reading his party policies on any issue in any regard, just writing him off as a lunatic.

 

[Tasteless]

1) Craig Thomson
2) Palmer
3) Nathan Bracken
4) Citizens Electoral Council
5) Bullet Train for Australia
6) Liberal
7) Labor
8) CDP
9) Greens

 

[kaz1]

can't wait to greet the australia first and CDP volunteers with an allah huakhbar sharia for australia

 

[soloooooo]

can't wait to greet the australia first and CDP volunteers with an allah huakhbar sharia for australia

I would laugh if they just beat you down on the spot.

 

[Graney]

1) Craig Thomson
2) Palmer
3) Nathan Bracken
4) Citizens Electoral Council
5) Bullet Train for Australia
6) Liberal
7) Labor
8) CDP
9) Greens

m8

 

[Tasteless]

i hate em all

 

[OMGITzJustin]

abbott's daughters

 

[Lentern]

Interesting. I hadn't considered actually reading his party policies on any issue in any regard, just writing him off as a lunatic.

You should at least watch him on lateline, he's very funny.

 

[Riproot]

House of Reps:
1 - Labor
2 - Greens
3 - Palmer
4 - Katter
5 - Democratic Christian Party
6 - Liberal (strategic as shit, soz)

Senate:
1-6 - Greens
7-12 - Labor
13-14 - Sex Party
…
…
110 - Pauline Hanson

 

[Lolsmith]

So you're preferencing actual fascists above Pauline Hanson? mate

 

[isildurrrr1]

fascist is the dumbest term ever used in political language. its just pretty much a word people used to describe something they don't like anymore.