Future prospects for Australian Law students and graduates? (1 Viewer)

[RivalryofTroll]

Just wanted to get some thoughts off the BoS community.

Fewer law graduates are choosing practice as a career

Graduates shun legal profession

Law students and young lawyers worry about job prospects

Students need the truth on legal job prospects

What do you expect for the future? Let's say within a decade time.

Will the situation get worse? Stay relatively the same? Get better?

It also seems a bit grim over in the US as well, not just Australia.

Discuss.

 

[Sonesful]

This is probably a naive question, but why do so many people want to do Law when the field is so saturated?

 

[Kiraken]

This is probably a naive question, but why do so many people want to do Law when the field is so saturated?

for the same reason you would do any other career: passion, money etc.

if you're confident you can be at the top of the game go for it and you will make it. Even if a field is competitive that shouldn't dissuade you from it, just aim for the top and if you have the ability and determination you will make it

if you don't well that's life, it isn't always supposed to be perfect and ideal for everyone

 

[wannaspoon]

This is probably a naive question, but why do so many people want to do Law when the field is so saturated?

blind optimism!

guess many law students are just as naive as the question asked...

However, it is a degree that can take you places (other than practising law)... Management, HR, Policy and Research (a field I want to get into), Finance, etc... they're all positions that law students can also apply for...

 

[Trans4M]

This is probably a naive question, but why do so many people want to do Law when the field is so saturated?

Also possibly because of "I don't want to waste my ATAR"

 

[Spiritual Being]

Also possibly because of "I don't want to waste my ATAR"

My thoughts exactly, especially with a 160 ATAR.

 

[Hatake88]

This is probably a naive question, but why do so many people want to do Law when the field is so saturated?

...if you listen to the news, every single industry is saturated.

accountants? saturated.
pharmacists? saturated.
commerce degree? so cookie-cutter.
science degree? generalist.
arts degree? you want fries with that?

The truth is, if you get really good marks, then you'd up end up with a job. If you spend your days half drunk and don't study, you will end up unemployed. Also, like someone said, not becoming a lawyer does not make a law degree useless. I've known law graduates who went into commercial firms and did well. I would also like to think most places would hire an arts/law graduate rather than a plain arts graduate.

 

[Drifting95]

...if you listen to the news, every single industry is saturated.

accountants? saturated.
pharmacists? saturated.
commerce degree? so cookie-cutter.
science degree? generalist.
arts degree? you want fries with that?

The truth is, if you get really good marks, then you'd up end up with a job. If you spend your days half drunk and don't study, you will end up unemployed. Also, like someone said, not becoming a lawyer does not make a law degree useless. I've known law graduates who went into commercial firms and did well. I would also like to think most places would hire an arts/law graduate rather than a plain arts graduate.

+1

Comm/law is fast becoming a norm for high level finance jobs along with comm (honours), not because firms desire it but because the top candidates all hold these degrees. People forget of the better opportunities to complete more internships, volunteering and other activities to improve their resume for grad applications. You just can't compete with that when you're doing a shorter degree and only have the chance to do one or two internships.

 

[enoilgam]

for the same reason you would do any other career: passion, money etc.

if you're confident you can be at the top of the game go for it and you will make it. Even if a field is competitive that shouldn't dissuade you from it, just aim for the top and if you have the ability and determination you will make it

if you don't well that's life, it isn't always supposed to be perfect and ideal for everyone

This whole post pretty much sums it up for me - if you really want to be a lawyer, then the job market shouldnt deter you. Remember, some people have to make it in the profession.

...if you listen to the news, every single industry is saturated.

Also a good point - honestly, the amount of contradictory news stories I have heard on job prospects is unbelievable (I have read a few which suggests that there are too few accountants and others which say there are too many). Also, speculation from people doesnt really help, especially those who arent in the know.

Comm/law is fast becoming a norm for high level finance jobs along with comm (honours), not because firms desire it but because the top candidates all hold these degrees. People forget of the better opportunities to complete more internships, volunteering and other activities to improve their resume for grad applications. You just can't compete with that when you're doing a shorter degree and only have the chance to do one or two internships.

I think this is important for people to remember, but a university degree is only going to take up a small part of your CV and it just acts as a qualifier for most jobs. You need to fill your CV up with other stuff if you want to even be in the ballpark in terms of competitiveness.

 

[pHyRe]

...if you listen to the news, every single industry is saturated.

accountants? saturated.
pharmacists? saturated.
commerce degree? so cookie-cutter.
science degree? generalist.
arts degree? you want fries with that?

The truth is, if you get really good marks, then you'd up end up with a job. If you spend your days half drunk and don't study, you will end up unemployed. Also, like someone said, not becoming a lawyer does not make a law degree useless. I've known law graduates who went into commercial firms and did well. I would also like to think most places would hire an arts/law graduate rather than a plain arts graduate.

thats probably cause the uni system itself is oversaturated and so almost every degree is saturated. there's too many graduates these days, its even worse in america with college educated people flipping burgers.

 

[RishBonjour99]

+1

Comm/law is fast becoming a norm for high level finance jobs along with comm (honours), not because firms desire it but because the top candidates all hold these degrees. People forget of the better opportunities to complete more internships, volunteering and other activities to improve their resume for grad applications. You just can't compete with that when you're doing a shorter degree and only have the chance to do one or two internships.

Exactly the case. 3 years is way too short. 1st year over, and you need to start worrying about internships because you are already a penultimate year student (even though they take final year students sometimes).

thats probably cause the uni system itself is oversaturated and so almost every degree is saturated. there's too many graduates these days, its even worse in america with college educated people flipping burgers.

This is still for the best. Governments are trying to make further education as accessible as possible (funding new institutions, lowering cut offs in selected universities, offering scholarships etc etc). Does this guarantee a job? no. It does, however, offer them an opportunity - which, if they choose to take with some gravity, will most probably result in the 'first university graduate from the family who is now employed' scenario.

I remember reading online forums and being discouraged going into a straight commerce degree seeing all the 'every man and his dog has a comm degree, good luck finding employment lol'.
Bull shit. Will you be on the back foot against a D ave comm/law kid from a top uni? yes. But, you can probably get into the top stuff (IB, MBB, big 4 - what ever you are into), given you are an outstanding candidate.


Also question : those on bos that are doing law - what are you doing it for?

 

[Drifting95]

Exactly the case. 3 years is way too short. 1st year over, and you need to start worrying about internships because you are already a penultimate year student (even though they take final year students sometimes).



This is still for the best. Governments are trying to make further education as accessible as possible (funding new institutions, lowering cut offs in selected universities, offering scholarships etc etc). Does this guarantee a job? no. It does, however, offer them an opportunity - which, if they choose to take with some gravity, will most probably result in the 'first university graduate from the family who is now employed' scenario.

I remember reading online forums and being discouraged going into a straight commerce degree seeing all the 'every man and his dog has a comm degree, good luck finding employment lol'.
Bull shit. Will you be on the back foot against a D ave comm/law kid from a top uni? yes. But, you can probably get into the top stuff (IB, MBB, big 4 - what ever you are into), given you are an outstanding candidate.


Also question : those on bos that are doing law - what are you doing it for?

The prestige and to not waste my atar

In all seriousness, my reasons are evident within my initial post. Ultimately, i don't want to go into the law profession (however the chance is there if i choose) but the chances to improve my CV and have a variety of different internships are my reasons. A law degree is worthless if you haven't got anything else to put on your resume, i guarantee you the top kids are working their asses off not only during uni but spend their summers working in accounting/finance/law firms while you relax.

I find linkedin a great resource, i spend some time going through recent graduates in BIG 4/IB/consulting/law firms to see what the standards are like. These people have got a great marks at a Go8 uni doing law, 2-4 internships from reputable firms, numerous volunteering activities and are executives on societies. Obviously not everyone will be up to this standard but people need to be realistic and not expect that JUST going to USYD/UNSW will allow them to walk into a top tier firm in the field of their choice.

 

[RishBonjour99]

The prestige and to not waste my atar

In all seriousness, my reasons are evident within my initial post. Ultimately, i don't want to go into the law profession (however the chance is there if i choose) but the chances to improve my CV and have a variety of different internships are my reasons. A law degree is worthless if you haven't got anything else to put on your resume, i guarantee you the top kids are working their asses off not only during uni but spend their summers working in accounting/finance/law firms while you relax.

I find linkedin a great resource, i spend some time going through recent graduates in BIG 4/IB/consulting/law firms to see what the standards are like. These people have got a great marks at a Go8 uni doing law, 2-4 internships from reputable firms, numerous volunteering activities and are executives on societies. Obviously not everyone will be up to this standard but people need to be realistic and not expect that JUST going to USYD/UNSW will allow them to walk into a top tier firm in the field of their choice.

I'm assuming by 'you' you don't mean me?

I don't think anyone is under the impression that just by going to a top university, your life will be set out for you. Definitely not anyone I know.

 

[wannaspoon]

Also question : those on bos that are doing law - what are you doing it for?

Because I'm doing it and you're not, that's why... u mad, bro!

on a serious note, I'm doing it because I can do jack all with my social science degree... you are better equipped and have more prospects with a Law degree rather than a Social Science degree; trust me...

lol @ all the law students worried about over saturation in the profession and worried about their degrees being worthless... I guess those worried have never done an Arts or Social Science degree...

 

[Drifting95]

I'm assuming by 'you' you don't mean me?

I don't think anyone is under the impression that just by going to a top university, your life will be set out for you. Definitely not anyone I know.

Yeah, i was just speaking generally.

Depends who you talk to, i know people personally that think that a top uni will solve all their problems. It might just be the minority though.

 

[RishBonjour99]

Because I'm doing it and you're not, that's why... u mad, bro!

on a serious note, I'm doing it because I can do jack all with my social science degree... you are better equipped and have more prospects with a Law degree rather than a Social Science degree; trust me...

lol @ all the law students worried about over saturation in the profession and worried about their degrees being worthless... I guess those worried have never done an Arts or Social Science degree...

Yeah, I'm mad bro. Not good enough to get into law, sorry.

Yeah, i was just speaking generally.

Depends who you talk to, i know people personally that think that a top uni will solve all their problems. It might just be the minority though.

Those days are gone. Most unis offer bonus points for law (AAA for UNSW - law should be excluded (students can transfer if they can), UTS has up to 10+ EAS points in some cases, UWS let someone from my school get in with like 60 ATAR). So its no longer exclusive - hence graduate jobs aren't as secured. But, most comm/law people I know aren't interested in law.

Same bad news:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/graduate-glut-12000-new-lawyers-every-year-20140214-32qnm.html

 

[neo o]

5,000 graduates per year entering a profession of 60,000. Seems bad.

 

[Omnidragon]

Big problem

 

[wannaspoon]

Yeah, I'm mad bro. Not good enough to get into law, sorry.

sorry that I was too busy winning during year 12...

5,000 graduates per year entering a profession of 60,000. Seems bad.

Yes, and no... assuming all those 5,000 graduates are moving on to practice, it's very, very bad...

Good thing about a law degree is that you can branch off into other professions (If you have done a double, If not, you are deep in the stink...)

It's always ideal to have do a double so you have something to fall back on as a plan B... or take the back road with a non law degree and JD (or grad entry LLB)...

 

[Omnidragon]

Branch off into other professions? Like being am academic?