UNSW vs. MQ for actuarial (POLL!) (1 Viewer)

[mreditor16]

Refer to Poll (above) for my main question. Reply below with more thoughts if you wish. Thanks!

BY THE WAY, this is the FULL question for the poll:

In your opinion, which of these is the best degree to do at uni, taking into account factors such as teaching quality, content covered, job prospects for graduates, 1 year of extra study vs. 1 year of potential work experience, and quality of resources (e.g. books, technology, mentors) for students of these degrees, internship/work placement opportunities while at uni?

If you think I've missed out on any important criteria, reply below.

 

[mreditor16]

bump!

 

[Chronost]

It'll be also good if you could mention your majors for comm degree and what job aspirations you have

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[mreditor16]

It'll be also good if you could mention your majors for comm degree and what job aspirations you have

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I definitely want to go into an actuarial job (whether general, life or super etc.). Its just I'm worried about the oversupply of actuarial graduates and job prospects etc. in the field. To be honest, I really love maths and commerce, and want to do something that combines those two fields.

 

[Squar3root]

I definitely want to go into an actuarial job (whether general, life or super etc.). Its just I'm worried about the oversupply of actuarial graduates and job prospects etc. in the field. To be honest, I really love maths and commerce, and want to do something that combines those two fields.

lol, if you can get a actuarial degree; you will pretty much have a guaranteed job as soon as you graduate

 

[mreditor16]

lol, if you can get a actuarial degree; you will pretty much have a guaranteed job as soon as you graduate

I've heard otherwise (even on BoS). Are you sure?

But you do raise an interesting point, the difficulty of the degree. How much difficulty would a person like me, with a rank within top 10 in a top 5 school, typically have with the content of the degree? How hard and how much work would I need to put in?

 

[Chronost]

lol, if you can get a actuarial degree; you will pretty much have a guaranteed job as soon as you graduate

You aren't,alot of people that graduate don't make it into the actuarial field,there's actually not that many spots available and it's quite competitive. People with an actuarial degree usually end up working in the commerce industry but doing something else.(due to their skills)

 

[mreditor16]

You aren't,alot of people that graduate don't make it into the actuarial field,there's actually not that many spots available and it's quite competitive. People with an actuarial degree usually end up working in the commerce industry but doing something else.(due to their skills)

hmmmm. that is what I've heard from most people. that's why people say "get into co-op or do another degree with co-op like commerce or eco or applied finance". thoughts people?

 

[obliviousninja]

Pretty much if you have any sort of co-op you are set for life.

glhf for getting co-op finance. probs harder than med.

 

[Squar3root]

I've heard otherwise (even on BoS). Are you sure?

But you do raise an interesting point, the difficulty of the degree. How much difficulty would a person like me, with a rank within top 10 in a top 5 school, typically have with the content of the degree? How hard and how much work would I need to put in?

Yes I am sure. Most (not all) of my friends in 3rd and final years of actuary (many did combined with maths and eco/comm/business) already have a job(s) lined up or at least have some sort of prospect of getting a job within a month or so of graduating.

It will be the same difficulty as in contrast to someone like me. Just because you go to ruse, baulko, syd boys, or in your case "a top 5 school" does not mean that it will be easier for you (or harder for me) to cope relative to someone in a ranked 500's school. (getting in is entirely different, since you're up there at an unnamed top school you could pretty much get into anything easily (except med). i don't mean to brag but i could have got into actuary with all the bonus points offered to me, but engineering ftw). you will still need to put in the same amount of work as anyone else

You aren't,alot of people that graduate don't make it into the actuarial field,there's actually not that many spots available and it's quite competitive. People with an actuarial degree usually end up working in the commerce industry but doing something else.(due to their skills)

there are about 2000 actuaries in Australia alone (i didn't make this up, it is from matrix), it will be relatively easy to find a career after you graduate. keep in mind that there is a 90% drop out rate of the degree (highest out there) so really only ~10% of people make it. Most can't handle first year maths like MATH1151 at unsw (or macq. equivalent). Keep in mind that i do MATH1141 and i am still finding it hard to keep up and i am a very capable student.

Yes i do agree that people combined with commerce and economics and all that will have a greater advantage over the single degree but that doesn't mean you will not be able to find a job. I mean whats the worst, you have to start off with a ~$75K salary as opposed to ~$90-100K and have to maybe put in a few more job applications?

EDIT: ON is sort of correct. A lot of people apply for Co-op (my self included) and still don't get in. it is very competitive but in the end there is no shortage of jobs for medicine or actuary. other degrees like engineering and single business are a bit harder.

 

[mreditor16]

It will be the same difficulty as in contrast to someone like me. Just because you go to ruse, baulko, syd boys, or in your case "a top 5 school" does not mean that it will be easier for you (or harder for me) to cope relative to someone in a ranked 500's school. you will still need to put in the same amount of work as anyone else

there are about 2000 actuaries in Australia alone (i didn't make this up, it is from matrix), it will be relatively easy to find a career after you graduate. keep in mind that there is a 90% drop out rate of the degree (highest out there) so really only ~10% of people make it. Most can't handle first year maths like MATH1151 at unsw (or macq. equivalent). Keep in mind that i do MATH1141 and i am still finding it hard to keep up and i am a very capable student.

squareroot, I think you've misunderstood my intentions. when I said:

How much difficulty would a person like me, with a rank within top 10 in a top 5 school, typically have with the content of the degree? How hard and how much work would I need to put in?.

The reason I said it was so you can gauge what my maths ability is. If I had plainly asked how hard will I find actuarial, well, someone would have replied "how am I supposed to know? I can give you a rough idea if you give me an idea of how good you're at maths" etc.

So, I know I have to put in the hard yards in, and I'm determined to do so. But me saying "rank within top 10 in a top 5 school" was to just give you an idea of my maths ability and thus maybe make a judgement of how hard I will find it... if you get what I mean - I was definitely not trying to put myself on a pedestal or something like that.

Okay, and here is the most contentious part of discussing actuarial studies - drop-out rates. You say 90%. According to flyin' who has been there and done that, and even made this actuarial FAQ (http://community.boredofstudies.org/645/faculty-business-economics/131883/actuarial-studies.html), he specifically said:

The drop out rate, which we'll define as transferring out of actuarial studies, is not as mythical as most numbers I've heard. Some people say that a third of the people who start out will graduate with an actuarial studies degree. My estimate is that its at least two thirds.

So can you really back your assertion of such a high drop-out rate?

Either way, thanks everyone for your constructive ideas. Much appreciated! Keep them coming and voting!

 

[Squar3root]

squareroot, I think you've misunderstood my intentions. when I said:

The reason I said it was so you can gauge what my maths ability is. If I had plainly asked how hard will I find actuarial, well, someone would have replied "how am I supposed to know? I can give you a rough idea if you give me an idea of how good you're at maths" etc.

So, I know I have to put in the hard yards in, and I'm determined to do so. But me saying "rank within top 10 in a top 5 school" was to just give you an idea of my maths ability and thus maybe make a judgement of how hard I will find it... if you get what I mean - I was definitely not trying to put myself on a pedestal or something like that.

So can you really back your assertion of such a high drop-out rate?

Either way, thanks everyone for your constructive ideas. Much appreciated! Keep them coming and voting!

it was somewhere in this video i watched some time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxAbK0ZxcI (i cant remember where). I remember hearing 90% (where 65% is within the 1st year and the remainder in the 2nd and 3rd years). i was also surprised when i heard this number and this sort of detered me from going into an actuary career (with other things). but for arguments sake, say it is like 70-80%

I would not be surprised if i had misinterpreted the question. now i think your question is a bit more clear i will attempt to give you a better answer.

you may find actuary mid-hard. No-one will find actuary easy lol, but from what you've described being top 10 (assuming you do MX2) you should be able to cope but this isn't to say you will. many students at uni who done preformed brilliantly in extension maths still fail/pass/credit uni maths so really high school maths isn't a true indicator of uni maths

(the part i said before; still stands)

EDIT: shadowdude explained this in a thread, still can't remember which one though

 

[mreditor16]

it was somewhere in this video i watched some time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxAbK0ZxcI (i cant remember where). I remember hearing 90% (where 65% is within the 1st year and the remainder in the 2nd and 3rd years). i was also surprised when i heard this number and this sort of detered me from going into an actuary career (with other things). but for arguments sake, say it is like 70-80%

I would not be surprised if i had misinterpreted the question. now i think your question is a bit more clear i will attempt to give you a better answer.

you may find actuary mid-hard. No-one will find actuary easy lol, but from what you've described being top 10 (assuming you do MX2) you should be able to cope but this isn't to say you will. many students at uni who done preformed brilliantly in extension maths still fail/pass/credit uni maths so really high school maths isn't a true indicator of uni maths

hmm yeh now i get what you mean. then how much math do actuaries actually use when they're on the job?

 

[Squar3root]

hmm yeh now i get what you mean. then how much math do actuaries actually use when they're on the job?

usually: none lol. Uni is more about learning the theory and then in the end some fancy computer does it for you. Example; engineers will learn all types of maths and thermodynamics but i highly doubt that a company will risk stuffing up because someone forgot to "mulitply by negative 1." in the case of actuarial studies; it is much alike the same; once students graduate; their computer skills start to build because they use powerful software on computers to determine risk models and stuff. The stuff they learn at uni will become useful if all the computers in all world suddenly died and there was no more fuel to power stuff and the only things left were pen and paper

 

[D94]

The drop out rate is more like 50%. If we use UNSW as an example, the number of students taking a first year ACTL course compared to 2 years later looking at the 3rd year courses, it is around 50% less. I also recall my friend doing actuarial talking about a 50% drop out rate from first year to 3rd year.

 

[Squar3root]

The drop out rate is more like 50%. If we use UNSW as an example, the number of students taking a first year ACTL course compared to 2 years later looking at the 3rd year courses, it is around 50% less. I also recall my friend doing actuarial talking about a 50% drop out rate from first year to 3rd year.

all these conflicting results. Maybe we should get some factual information from somewhere. One could go ASB when uni resumes?

 

[Omnipotence]

hmmmm. that is what I've heard from most people. that's why people say "get into co-op or do another degree with co-op like commerce or eco or applied finance". thoughts people?

Yep you will be guaranteed a job after uni. The finance/accounting co-ops are harder to get into than the BIT/engineering ones. My brother got into medicine but didn't even get called up for the actuarial interview.

 

[D94]

all these conflicting results. Maybe we should get some factual information from somewhere. One could go ASB when uni resumes?

But at least my 'claim' is backed by actual data.

ACTL1001 in 2010: 241 students - http://www.timetable.unsw.edu.au/2010/ACTL1001.html
ACTL3001 in 2012: 129 students - http://www.timetable.unsw.edu.au/2012/ACTL3001.html

All they would be doing is looking at the numbers, and it would not be that much different to the numbers enrolled in each course.

 

[Sacredoblivion]

Even though i am currently studying medicine, Actuarial studies was my second option, and like you I did put some thought into it.

In my opinion (and in the opinions of my family friends who I asked and are all successful), Macquarie is a better university for anything finance/actuarial related. I was told that it was the first uni that offered it, and as such had awesome placement programs/work experience/etc following your degree. Don't be phased by what some people may say about Macquarie being a second rate university, it is definetely top tier for anything business/finance/actuarial related. Just don't do law at Macquarie unless you have connections in the field.

 

[D94]

Yep you will be guaranteed a job after uni. The finance/accounting co-ops are harder to get into than the BIT/engineering ones. My brother got into medicine but didn't even get called up for the actuarial interview.

Some statistics - number of co-op scholars for each field:

Finance:
2014: 7
2013: 9
2012: 7
2011: 6

Accounting:
2014: 7
2013: 8
2012: 10
2011: 12

BIT/BIS:
2014: 11
2013: 15
2012: 14
2011: 17

Actuarial:
2014: 12
2013: 12
2012: 8
2011: 14

Mech:
2014: 1
2013: 1
2012: 3
2011: 3

Elec:
2014: 1
2013: 0
2012: 4
2011: 4

Chem:
2014: 2
2013: 3
2012: 2
2011: 1

Civil:
2014: 0
2013: 1
2012: 1
2011: 4

From that, engineering is hardest to get into. The engineering cohorts are as larger or larger than the respective business cohorts. Sure not everyone applies, but you can get a sense of the competitiveness.