Petition - ATAR Should Not Affect University Options (3 Viewers)

[nerdasdasd]

How do you even physics or chemistry without math... that's just beyond any common sense.

The course is designed in a way that you don't need any

Im the current syllabus , it is all basic maths

 

[Crobat]

The course is designed in a way that you don't need any

Im the current syllabus , it is all basic maths

Yeah I don't think he means it that literally mate

He's saying how stupid that is

 

[Axio]

The ATAR is not the only way to get into university, it is simply the quickest way to get into university. And if you have such great passions that are not being satisfied in school, why can't you pursue them outside school?

 

[Kymren]

I think compulsory subjects are good and should be both English and maths, but they shouldn't have to be examined. As long as the school says that you have completed the course to a satisfactory level should be enough.

also on the science, my chemistry teacher has been teaching for over 20 years and said that the syllabus used to be 20% content and 80% calculations, now it is virtually the opposite. who cares about what someone got wrong, and incorrect theories. As long as we get the current theories and can apply them and do mall the calculations and formulas it should be enough.

Another point is that often incredibly gifted kids don't do good at school, or at least not in all their subjects. Some kids might go incredibly good at extension maths but barely pass standard English, why should their mark be brought down by English?

 

[D94]

I think compulsory subjects are good and should be both English and maths, but they shouldn't have to be examined. As long as the school says that you have completed the course to a satisfactory level should be enough.

also on the science, my chemistry teacher has been teaching for over 20 years and said that the syllabus used to be 20% content and 80% calculations, now it is virtually the opposite. who cares about what someone got wrong, and incorrect theories. As long as we get the current theories and can apply them and do mall the calculations and formulas it should be enough.

Another point is that often incredibly gifted kids don't do good at school, or at least not in all their subjects. Some kids might go incredibly good at extension maths but barely pass standard English, why should their mark be brought down by English?

How can you make that point when you just said students should do English and Maths, and complete it to a satisfactory level? What if that English-oriented student barely passes Maths, and as a result, does not satisfactorily passes in your suggested system?

 

[Crobat]

Another point is that often incredibly gifted kids don't do good at school, or at least not in all their subjects. Some kids might go incredibly good at extension maths but barely pass standard English, why should their mark be brought down by English?

1. I know you probably aren't inferring this in its entirety but a student doing "incredibly good" in a subject does not mean they are "incredibly gifted".

2. A student who does "incredibly good" in one subject or area of subjects does not mean they should be exempt from doing poorly in other subjects if they are genuinely poor at it.

3. Because they had a poor response in that subject?

 

[isildurrrr1]

Another point is that often incredibly gifted kids don't do good at school, or at least not in all their subjects. Some kids might go incredibly good at extension maths but barely pass standard English, why should their mark be brought down by English?

Then they're not incredibly gifted.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Then they're not incredibly gifted.

Incredibly gifted, does not mean you have to be good at English. It means that you naturally excel at a certain subject or talent .... For example maths or physics

 

[JohnMaximus]

1. I know you probably aren't inferring this in its entirety but a student doing "incredibly good" in a subject does not mean they are "incredibly gifted".

2. A student who does "incredibly good" in one subject or area of subjects does not mean they should be exempt from doing poorly in other subjects if they are genuinely poor at it.

3. Because they had a poor response in that subject?

 

[isildurrrr1]

Incredibly gifted, does not mean you have to be good at English. It means that you naturally excel at a certain subject or talent .... For example maths or physics

Incredibly gifted and talented are two different things. If you are truly gifted, you should be at least semi-competitive in your weakest subjects.

 

[Hagaren]

Incredibly gifted and talented are two different things. If you are truly gifted, you should be at least semi-competitive in your weakest subjects.

Not that I am in anyway the norm, but to give you an idea of how that statement is absolute garbage.

UAI: 33.15
STAT: 196

I have an exam for cost accounting in 4 days or so, I have the top mark in the entire course and I need 2.5 to pass. I will literally walk in there do half the exam and leave.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Not that I am in anyway the norm, but to give you an idea of how that statement is absolute garbage.

UAI: 33.15
STAT: 196

I have an exam for cost accounting in 4 days or so, I have the top mark in the entire course and I need 2.5 to pass. I will literally walk in there do half the exam and leave.

ok cyril faggis

 

[Hagaren]

the thought of you dead gives me half an erection, the other half would really miss you.

 

[JohnMaximus]

Incredibly gifted and talented are two different things. If you are truly gifted, you should be at least semi-competitive in your weakest subjects.

really?

 

[isildurrrr1]

really?

What do we mean when by "gifted"? Françoys Gagné (2003) says: "Gifted students are those whose potential is distinctly above average in one or more of the following domains of human ability: intellectual, creative, social and physical. Talented students are those whose skills are distinctly above average in one or more areas of human performance."

http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-...12/may/09/teaching-gifted-and-talented-pupils

That's pretty much where i'm going from. Gifted is more about overall performance in certain areas, be it sport academic music etc. talented is being very good at a specific thing.

 

[JohnMaximus]

What do we mean when by "gifted"? Françoys Gagné (2003) says: "Gifted students are those whose potential is distinctly above average in one or more of the following domains of human ability: intellectual, creative, social and physical. Talented students are those whose skills are distinctly above average in one or more areas of human performance."

http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-...12/may/09/teaching-gifted-and-talented-pupils

That's pretty much where i'm going from. Gifted is more about overall performance in certain areas, be it sport academic music etc. talented is being very good at a specific thing.

wut

 

[BLIT2014]

Hey guys, for a project I am doing a petition on how the education system can restrict us. I'm sure some of you BOS users including myself hate that whether we make it into university or not is based on how good we are at memorising stuff and remembering it in an exam that has no relevance to real life. You should be able to follow your passion and not be limited by an outdated education system. If you could 'sign' it that would really help, we want to show governments and universities that it shouldn't be like this!

http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/christopher-pyne-together-we-can-free-education

Would you be inclined to entry type exam?

 

[teridax]

But what about the students that are better in mathematics or science and are obliged to do english? If I have gathered anything about your arguments on this thread, it is that 1. you are ignorant to the aforementioned individuals and 2. you appear to have an inaccurate view of english in the senior years, or at least, exaggerate its general usefulness.

It is as if you have been trying to argue that english in the senior years explicitly focuses on fundamental skills like punctuation, grammar and how to write academic essays suitable to all fields. Except it doesn't. It focuses far more on how an individual personally interprets a text. It's got a lot to do with creative thinking, but can hardly compare in logical thinking when it comes to mathematics or science.

The question is this: how useful really is english to an individual who is simply not interested or whose career path has very little to do with english? I believe that instead of arguing solely from your point of view you need to start thinking about how other individuals might be feeling about english. A lot of individuals out there just regurgitate what content their english teacher has given them and memorise some generic essay that they hope can be applied to the question they're asked.

The reality is, their experiences would be similar to the experiences artsy students would have if they were obliged to do mathematics or science. What I can't understand is that you seem to be able to sympathise with the hypothetical situation of artsy students doing mathematics or science, yet you can't sympathise with the actual situation of mathematical or scientific students doing english.

tl;dr if you can understand why mandating mathematics or science isn't that great, then you should understand why the current mandating of english isn't that great either.

And here's the evidence for implying what I have from your posts:



1. Knowing how to use the right language is really not the centre of english in the senior years. You have to interpret texts before you start using the right language. Students who lack creative ability may not be able to interpret literature well or find passion for literature in the first place. Regardless, language in english is very narrow. It's literary language that centres on literary techniques. How exactly is this relevant when I am writing some essay for psychology in university? Also, if one wants to become a counsellor, they require knowledge in statistics and biology far more than they require english.

2. I don't really know why you're arguing that senior science doesn't better our society. Obviously no subject in high school directly benefits society in the sense of immediately producing occupations. By the way, it becomes apparent that bettering our society is your term, since you just used it.

3. Yes and there are professions like scientists that ponder on experiments, not essays.

4. Everyone has a different role in society. If an individual wants to recognise the importance of literature, good for them. But not everyone has to do this.

5. What has talking six hours a day have anything to do with english? If having done four units of english helps my verbal clarity, then I have missed some benefit that english is apparently meant to have. I believe you mean drama.



1. Once again, this "vital communication factor" is only useful for individuals who will spend the majority of their degrees in university doing artsy units like english or philosophy. Otherwise it doesn't help much at all. It's only a "vital communication factor" applied on paper. It doesn't make you more socially adept or something, so I could argue it isn't "vital" at all. Most communication is verbal in a social context.

Holy shit, I have never felt so gratified seeing fiction getting rekt by buriza. Fiction, I've seen your posts on the year 12 chat thread, and it annoyed me how you wanted to always win a debate and make others feel bad with your lengthy essays.

Serves you right for trying to assert your superiority.

 

[Sien]

How about this: Why don't create a system where highschool's harder to graduate? And then once you graduate you are free to go into any uni and pursue whatever course? Of course, every system has its flaws but that's the only way i can think of that will take out the HSC. The syllabus for english should change, it won't help you unless you are doing creative courses in uni like philosophy etc. Not that english is absolutly useless but ...

 

[nolimits]

Hey guys, for a project I am doing a petition on how the education system can restrict us. I'm sure some of you BOS users including myself hate that whether we make it into university or not is based on how good we are at memorising stuff and remembering it in an exam that has no relevance to real life. You should be able to follow your passion and not be limited by an outdated education system. If you could 'sign' it that would really help, we want to show governments and universities that it shouldn't be like this!

http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/christopher-pyne-together-we-can-free-education

Only dumb cunts say that.