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Does the HSC determine how smart you are. Discuss. (2 Viewers)

lilcutetricker

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But honestly not accepting intelligence as 'being able to answer a generic question' or being able to 'rote learn' isn't entirely true. In most cases the two aren't easily performed by an unintelligent person. How many of you can say that you can memorise things and retain it over a period of time without fully understanding the concept? I understand the HSC isnt the best way to test someone's intelligence, but there is an extent thats arguable to say that something who attains a 90+ atar isnt from just luck and rote learning, they applied themselves, worked hard and persevered.

Whilst I can say that almost every question in exams are somewhat similar, a few do boggle your mind and force you to manipulate the question to fit a certain formula or criteria. Well isnt that what intelligence is? Seeing something that others fail to see and learning everything others were too lazy to learn. That to me is intelligence, others may argue differently, refuse my points and i won't argue with you because you are entitled to your opinion

Or maybe 'intelligence' is just common sense - something everyone seems to be lacking nowadays... well then that would be rare to see an 'intelligent' person then wouldnt it? :)
 

GoldyOrNugget

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I don't think all smart people are HSC high performers or vice versa, but I've also met way too many people who use "HSC is just a game" as an excuse to slack off. They carry the same attitude into their uni years and continue their streak of low academic performance, and throughout it they think that they're some genius who's let down by the system.

There's no test that's a perfect indication of your overall intelligence. STFU and put in some effort.
 

MrTammoth

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I'm so sorry guis I fell asleep. I hope you missed me very much. ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡
 

seanieg89

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There's no test that's a perfect indication of your overall intelligence. STFU and put in some effort.
For most aspirations though, a REALLY strong HSC performance is unnecessary. Surely there is nothing wrong with cruising in high school, spending your time instead on properly learning stuff that actually is important to your particular field. (Of course, this sentiment only applies to students with a pretty good idea of what they want to do). This was definitely my approach anyway.
 

strawberrye

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I definitely don't agree with the notion that HSC is a complete or reliable measure of one's academic intelligence. I think in some extents, HSC serves more as a measure of how efficiently and consistently one studies and tests one's time management skills rather than just reliant on intelligence. There are many people who have achieved great successes without having done extra-ordinarily well in the HSC.
 

nerdasdasd

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Many people have failed in schools (doing exams like the HSC) and succeeded in life, having ideas that are considered intelligent.
 

nerdasdasd

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The HSC is a measure of how well you can do in exams, regurgitate and rote learn.

People may have done bad in the HSC because they have a lack of interest in the subjects ... Or have had personal problems,

That does not make them unintelligent.
 

enoilgam

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Like intelligence may play a part into the effort to results ratio.
This pretty much. The HSC isnt a test of intelligence, but you still need a degree of it to do well. I think a lot of people in general have the wrong idea of intelligence in terms of what it actually is and how it manifests. Like, I get the feeling that many people associate intelligence with pop culture stereotypes (i.e. Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory). But in reality, intelligence is far more complex and it can be very latent trait. Some people might not appear intelligent and may not engage in stereotypical "nerdy" activities, but they may have an ability to process information and organise themselves in a highly efficient manner unlike most people. To me, it's naive to believe that everyone can do well in the HSC - as people have pointed out in this thread, the HSC is about your ability to study effectively and play the game. In order to do that well, you need to have a degree of natural apptitude. However, that being said, without motivation and a strong work ethic, you arent going to get far.

Nope you're wrong. HSC involves children studying and creating methods of studying that they will be implemented in their tertiary studies.
Also agree with this - the HSC may not be useful in terms of content, but getting into the right habits in HS can be a big help with uni. That's really something that you need to teach yourself.
 

RivalryofTroll

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How does one DEFINE intelligence though?

IQ?

Are we assuming ''intelligence'' the ability to outperform your peers academically or artistically if you and your peers were theoretically putting in EQUAL EFFORT (which is not realistic anyways because people have different levels of motivation)?

''Talent you have naturally''. If we all did not study or studied to the same extent, those who are naturally talented (or ''intelligent'') would always be the winners. Talent/''intelligence'' clearly gives you a much needed competitive advantage in academics (or the HSC in this case) that can't be ''trained''. It assists in your ability to quickly understand more complex concepts compared to your less gifted peers.

''Skill'' is developed by hard work and work ethic. Knowing your syllabus (whether it be through long hours of memorising/rote-learning or just long hours of trying to understand it) takes ''skill''. Exam technique can also be ''trained'' or ''developed'' --> e.g. this is a reason why not all Science Olympiads (seen to be more ''intelligent'') become HSC science state rankers.

Basically, the HSC is not a measure of intelligence or talent. It's not a measure of ''skill''/effort (or the ability to work hard purely). It's a measure of the combination of both.

However, the greatest weight is given to skill/hard work for the HSC. People say ''talent'' fails if you fail to work hard. But ''talent'' becomes a greater weapon as you progress to university and chase your ambition (career and future)... There's no denying that ''intelligence'' is an important factor to achieving the GREATEST results against your peers.

There's a lot more to HSC than just plain rote learning imo. And I don't think you can say that ANYONE who simply "works hard" can pull off ATARs as high as 99+ (or, for exaggeration purposes, 99.95). If that was so, then every pure rote learner who exists will be scoring 99.95 and that obviously isn't the case.
And your example is a bit extreme. I think the general "intelligent person" is also hard working, probably doesn't fall into illness like your friend unfortunately did and would score higher ATARs that way.

So what you're trying to say is that HSC has completely, and I mean absolutely NO correlation with intelligence?. I think that's a bit too definitive. Imo, there is an extent that this correlation exists.

I should also correct my previous post. The *average* 99+er would surely be smarter than, for example, your average mystery mark-er who got a mystery mark. (just to highlight my point).
Pure rote learners cannot achieve 99.95. Yes, I agree.

The more flexible/adaptable ''rote-learners'' can achieve 99+ (the possibly heavier rote learners who know that there's some things you can't just memorise and should just try to understand). E.g. one who rote learns their English essays but can directly answer/adapt to the essay questions given on the day.

I'm not particularly ''intelligent'' or ''talented'' but I somehow achieved a 99+ with strong work ethic and the willingness to develop ''skill''. If I put in 0 effort (whether it be rote learning/memorising/understanding the syllabus, concepts, essays, etc.), I would get nowhere close to the HSC marks I ended up achieving. And I'd definitely be outperformed by more ''intelligent'' kids who put in low effort.

Not to mention, some subjects seem to reward ''hard work'' (even if its through rote learning) more than others. Examples include Economics and Business Studies. Humanities in general. While others may nullify this effort vs reward - e.g. Extension 2 Mathematics or Physics.

Assuming they aren't naturally ''intelligent''/gifted, a person would probably see more success in a subject like Business Studies (where skill will take them far, even if it's through rote learning and being also adaptable) compared to a subject like Extension 2 Mathematics (which probably requires a degree of natural mathematical ability).

But honestly not accepting intelligence as 'being able to answer a generic question' or being able to 'rote learn' isn't entirely true. In most cases the two aren't easily performed by an unintelligent person. How many of you can say that you can memorise things and retain it over a period of time without fully understanding the concept? I understand the HSC isnt the best way to test someone's intelligence, but there is an extent thats arguable to say that something who attains a 90+ atar isnt from just luck and rote learning, they applied themselves, worked hard and persevered.

Whilst I can say that almost every question in exams are somewhat similar, a few do boggle your mind and force you to manipulate the question to fit a certain formula or criteria. Well isnt that what intelligence is? Seeing something that others fail to see and learning everything others were too lazy to learn. That to me is intelligence, others may argue differently, refuse my points and i won't argue with you because you are entitled to your opinion

Or maybe 'intelligence' is just common sense - something everyone seems to be lacking nowadays... well then that would be rare to see an 'intelligent' person then wouldnt it? :)
All comes down to how people define it.
 

D94

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Hi,

My friends and I were discussing today at school about this. One of my friends (she's a top-notch debater) says that the HSC is a measure of one's intelligence and if you do badly then you are dumb. I'm just curious to see other people's opinions thanks.
If she is, then she probably knows the rules of debate, which is applied from primary school all the way up to federal politics. Probably the most important is that you define the words you use - the obvious current political example being 'co-payment' and 'tax'.

I don't think anyone has addressed what 'smart' and 'intelligent' actually means. Sure we could go to a dictionary, but that doesn't always help. Does 'smart' mean 'intelligent'? Let's say they are, then is the requisite that any test must prove you are the Da Vinci of our time? Or does it simply need to show you are better than others in certain areas? Should age matter? Or life experience? Is the point that you know how to 'game' the (HSC) system, a measure of your intelligence? If one is able to figure that out, then surely they are intelligent (?).

Who is 'smart' or 'intelligent' (in the world right now)? Do they need to be well rounded as well? Another issue is whether we are talking about absolute intelligence or relative intelligence.

Back to the question, there is probably 4 reasons for doing badly (in the HSC). Not understanding at all; illness; not caring about it; and any assortment of errors such as missing a question or misreading something, but doesn't fit in the above. We can only really compare that student who just doesn't understand at all, to a student who does (not by rote learning).

If we tweak the premises of the question, we can indeed argue that the HSC is a measure of intelligence, with the stipulations that it must simply show a student is better than others in certain areas, that it is only at a certain age with certain life experience, that one is able to realise how the HSC words, that it is relative intelligence, and that you are comparing a student who understands, not rote learns, to a student who does not do badly due to illness or not caring or human errors in the exam.

Of course that becomes a bit ridiculous, but what else can you do in a debate if you are on the affirmative side?

Edit: in typing up my response, RivalryofTroll was the first person to address what the terms actually mean.
 

D94

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For most aspirations though, a REALLY strong HSC performance is unnecessary. Surely there is nothing wrong with cruising in high school, spending your time instead on properly learning stuff that actually is important to your particular field. (Of course, this sentiment only applies to students with a pretty good idea of what they want to do). This was definitely my approach anyway.
Sounds like that is more a reference to the ATAR. But the ATAR is a rank, so theoretically, everyone in the state could cruise through, and there will still be 99.95 students, despite a comparatively weaker HSC performance.
 

D94

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Casual triple post here.

lol have you been to uni before?
From what I've heard, uni is much more independent than HSC. HSC is just a mechanism of getting into uni, just like what cub3root said (are you any chance related to SR lol)
Quoting from the Board of Studies:
The HSC is an internationally recognised credential that provides a strong foundation for students wishing to pursue tertiary qualifications, vocational training or employment.
Having had a few years to reflect on this, it comes down to how the high school student approaches the HSC. If they want to be spoonfed information, then the HSC probably doesn't provide that foundation, but if the student uses it as an opportunity to prepare themselves for university, then I would agree with the Board of Studies' claim.
 

D94

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How would student X go about it?
Looking at the syllabus and independently learning the content, preferably ahead of time, then by a month before trials, they will have 'understood' the content and be able to do past papers without issue. Sure this might sound straightforward, but I guess the main thing is motivation.

(not saying this always works out at uni, but it a more independent learning environment)
 

enoilgam

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Having had a few years to reflect on this, it comes down to how the high school student approaches the HSC. If they want to be spoonfed information, then the HSC probably doesn't provide that foundation, but if the student uses it as an opportunity to prepare themselves for university, then I would agree with the Board of Studies' claim.
Couldnt agree more with this. As I've said before, the HSC teaches heaps of soft skills which are necessary for tertiary education and work. Ultimately though, it is up to you to master those skills, the system isnt going to just give them to you. If you choose to rote your way through school and dont get organised, then you cant blame the system for not preparing you for uni.
 

rumbleroar

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I'm assuming that this is active learning where you are actually engaging with the material, right?
imo active learning is more about independence and initiative, and depending on your personal goals, it can often encompass engaging with material beyond a superficial level

but this be a bit irrelevant to OP's question haha
 

cub3root

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imo active learning is more about independence and initiative, and depending on your personal goals, it can often encompass engaging with material beyond a superficial level

but this be a bit irrelevant to OP's question haha
yes and motivation

inb4derail
 

madditrev

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Honestly, i'm doing the HSC next year and it's sad that most people in my year, including myself, view the HSC as something that only proves who cracks under the pressure from the anxiety and everything and who doesn't.
 
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There's a reason the HSC provides an ATAR, but it's not to test your intelligence. A lot of people complain that it's all memorisation and playing the game. Whilst I admit that the 'playing the game' element is a bit of a problem (I.e. kids not doing maths in HSC but then doing engineering degrees) the memorisation isn't testing your memorisation skills per se, but rather your commitment to memorising, if that makes sense. It tests your work ethic. Some give up and whine and complain when they get poor ATARs but those who get high ATARs put in a f**k load of effort for the most part and a good work ethic is what you need to survive uni and the real world.
 

Fade1233

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Not really. I personally dont like the way hsc works. Its more rote learning than application in theory. Some pracs are ok but others are just... And they have made physics and chemistry basically essay writing. Physics has no substance, if you know what I mean. Its become a rote learning thing and essay writing thing. e.g. Discuss, Evaluate impacts of Michelson morley or Impacts of generators. These are probably the seven markers and what little actual physics they have eg. BCS is not taken into the correct detail. Not that I have much choice.
 

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